DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.19">DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement</a></h1><a name="a3725_19"></a><p><b>From: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.19">#19</a>]<br /> 4 May 2006<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.18">#18</a>] 4 May 2006</p> Rodney,<br /> <br /> Many of us consider .22/day worth it for the entertainment factor alone, not to mention the education, sourcing and comraderie.<br /> <br /> When things get hectic, what else can you do for under a quarter (US) to break the tension?<br /> <br /> <hr /><a name="a3725_20"></a><p><b>From: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.20">#20</a>]<br /> 4 May 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.17">#17</a>] 4 May 2006</p> <p>David L., Harvey, David T. - Count me in for the ride - wherever it goes I want a front seat - bugs on the windsheild and all.</p> <p>I do have a question - you have a lot of couples and companies who have more than one person who particiaptes on the forum - I will assume a membership is for a single individual - or is for a company / family???</p> <hr /><a name="a3725_21"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.21">#21</a>]<br /> 4 May 2006<br /><b>To: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.19">#19</a>] 4 May 2006</p> Uncle steve , thats not the issue - if I had to pay for every forum I visit or contribute to , it would cost me a fortune. But good luck with it all , I just wont be paying to spend my time and effort answering questions or giving tips or contributing - I will just post elsewhere where I DONT have to pay for it - sawmill or the laser engraving forum or DSSI engraving or whatever else pops up. I think the importance of this forum is overestimated and don't think its worth $99 a year.<hr /><a name="a3725_22"></a><p><b>From: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.22">#22</a>]<br /> 4 May 2006<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.21">#21</a>] 5 May 2006</p> Rodney, actually that IS the issue.... value for our $$.<br /> <br /> I agree that most of the forums I visit and participate in would not be worth a fee in my opinion. But for others it would be.<br /> <br /> That is why I decided that this forum IS one that I would get my money's worth from.<br /> <br /> You know we will miss you and your great contributions to the value, but there is more to this forum than "Rodney" that makes it worth my investment to me. BTW, it IS tax deductible as a business expense for most of the members.... so here in the US of A the government will actually pick up roughly a third of the cost...<br /> <br /> I wish you well in your endeavors and you will be missed. <span class="e_sad" title=":-("><span class="e__">:-(</span> </span><br /> <br /> <hr /><a name="a3725_23"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.23">#23</a>]<br /> 4 May 2006<br /><b>To: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.20">#20</a>] 5 May 2006</p> Joe,<br /> <br /> An annual membership will be good for two people from the same company, i.e. husband/wife/owner/employee. <hr /><a name="a3725_24"></a><p><b>From: sprinter</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.24">#24</a>]<br /> 4 May 2006<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> I'm with Rodney on this one, I can't see paying for what is free on other sites. My feeling is that the majority of the people that are giving tips or contributing will also go to other sites as well and not be willing to help if they have have to pay to help out. I wish David all the luck for his new venture, but I feel his perceived value of EEetc has been set to high.<hr /><a name="a3725_25"></a><p><b>From: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.25">#25</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.23">#23</a>] 5 May 2006</p> Thanks for the info. That seems fair enough for me. I assume when your ready you will post all the details we need for payment. <hr /><a name="a3725_26"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.26">#26</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.18">#18</a>] 5 May 2006</p> Rodney,<br /> <br /> I'm not surprised to find that you see little value in this site; I'd say that's primarily because you're a special case.<br /> <br /> Just as you see the awards and engraving industry related trade shows, as too limited a venue, for a person of your breadth and width of knowledge, by natural extension, an awards and engraving industry related forum will hold little in store for you.<br /> <br /> I agree with that assessment.<br /> <br /> Despite the harbingers of doom, my entire career has been a story of hatching success by "doing it all wrong."<br /> <br /> As an employee, my bent for taking on most any job, which was considered lunacy and too risky, by most engraving outlets, saw the shop I worked for, flourish, with customers coming from all over Southern California.<br /> <br /> When I decided to go on my own, the concept of having a business with almost no inventory, which relied heavily on engraving customer-provided merchandise, wasn't given a snowball's chance.<br /> <br /> Today, I enjoy a unique niche, in having fellow engravers, who find many projects too daunting, as a goodly portion of my customer base.<br /> <br /> I don't consider myself a special case at all. <br /> <br /> My message has always been one of encouraging people to get started on any level, in any way possible; which, over time, with sound businesses practices, which we regularly discuss here, should see their collection of small victories, turn into profitable independent businesses.<br /> <br /> You mentioned that the photo site you belonged to, turned into a pay site a week ago. Isn't it a little premature, to call their change of format a resounding failure?<br /> <br /> You no doubt, have a collection of posts on their site. What is/was their answer to your concern over archived information?<br /> <br /> Will we see a drop in traffic?<br /> <br /> Most assuredly; I absolutely expect it.<br /> <br /> Does that mean our traffic will stagnate, at whatever level we begin with?<br /> <br /> Very doubtful.<br /> <br /> I'll go so far, as to say, there are many people who currently view the forum, as lurkers, who will come out of the shadows, with amazing posts, once they know, what they consider to be "insider" information, won't be available to the general public.<br /> <br /> Who knows? Maybe a new "Rodney Gold" will emerge.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">How will newbies even gauge the value of the forum if they have to pay to read?</div><br /> <br /> There's no mandate to join for a year; or at all, for that matter.<br /> <br /> If newbies take a leap of faith, in the way of a $10 investment, which, by the way, is less than two gallons of gasoline, in many parts of the world, they'll enjoy 30-days of access.<br /> <br /> During that period, if they don't see something of value here (which is extremely unlikely) they never will; but they won't have gone broke, in the process.<br /> <br /> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">I would seriously try to cut some other deal , perhaps with advertisers or suppliers or find another means of supporting the forum other than asking users to pay.</div><br /> <br /> I'm actively in the process of cutting a deal with industry suppliers, as well as paid members.<br /> <br /> The deal with industry suppliers, is an opportunity to advertise to a prime demographic, with their only costs being a paid membership and an exclusive offer to our paid members.<br /> <br /> What's in it for paid subscribers, other than the supplier offers, is my heightened sense of responsibility, to ensure they get their hard-earned money's worth.<br /> <br /> I don't take that responsibility lightly.<br /> <br /> In the end, the irrefutable law of supply and demand will prevail.<br /> <br /> Our members will demand and we'll supply. <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span> <hr /><a name="a3725_27"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.27">#27</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.25">#25</a>] 5 May 2006</p> Joe,<br /> <br /> Yes, we'll post an official announcement, which will contain more details.<br /> <br /> I hadn't originally planned to raise this topic, before making the official announcement, which would have come very soon.<br /> <br /> Having our .org name unexpectedly in limbo, compelled me to let people know, that regardless of if we ever fly under that name again, the site may have been down, but we're far from down and out.<br /> <br /> It was time to announce our next level. <hr /><a name="a3725_28"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.28">#28</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.22">#22</a>] 5 May 2006</p> <p>As much as you might think I overestimate my importance , I really think that you overestimate this forums. It's a great place to be , nice folk , great sense of community but I really dont think that it influences the industry to any large extent and it's certainly not worth paying for. I can do better with the money - like a years subscription to clipart com that has way more than 700 pieces.</p> <p>I'm not even from the usa , so wont get the tax break and the $99 is a lot more in my country than for you. At the end of it all , why do ! even HAVEto have a justification for payment when none was required before???</p><hr /><a name="a3725_29"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.29">#29</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.26">#26</a>] 5 May 2006</p> <p>The other forum made the archives free to view and imho if you convert this to a pay site , that has be the case here.<br /> On the other forum , the issue was the Copyright of the articles and post which remains with the author notwithstanding anything they had on the site rules etc <br /> When they were bought over and the site was about to be changed to charge anyone to see em , a lot of the authors objected strongly due to the fact thay posted the stuff freely and at the time never expected or wanted it to be used to generate income.<br /> You are actually offering diddly squat for the subs David , the clipart is mickey mouse Your advertisers will want to see figures etc before commiting money , for that you need more traffic , not less (and assuredly as you say , the no's will drop)<br /> PPL coming to this forum or other specialised ones ARE the demographic , only ppl interested in engraving and related fields will visit them , be it yours or anyone elses. I think it really sucks to both have to pay to view and then also be targeted by advertisers. I would suggest one or the other.</p><hr /><a name="a3725_30"></a><p><b>From: scroller (JEFF)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.30">#30</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> I have to agree with Rodney here. I am not in the engraving business at this time but I am in the woodworking business. I have not been a regular contributor here but check in to see what's going on several times a day. I have answered a few posts from other members that hopefully were helpful in some way and also gotten some great advise from some members but I just can't justify paying for this advise at this time. If I ever become an engraving mostly shop I would probably join at that time because I would use the resources here more often however if I have enough withdrawl symptons I may pay just for the entertainment value <span class="e_smile" title=":-)"><span class="e__">:-)</span> </span> Jeff. <hr /><a name="a3725_31"></a><p><b>From: bruce (BBSD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.31">#31</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.29">#29</a>] 5 May 2006</p> <p>I agree with with you Rodney. They are acting like the Bank ATM's - free until they got you, then wham pay to use. </p> <p>$99/yr is too much. I feel you will lose many.</p> <p>The users of this free forum have contributed freely. We sell nothing to the others within it. </p> <p>This is a great forum. Its too sad.......</p><hr /><a name="a3725_32"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.32">#32</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.29">#29</a>] 5 May 2006</p> <p>I have to agree with you on many points Rodney....Over on the DSSI forum we wrangled with the same subject....and wondered what would ever happen if it went pay.....I am very interested in seeing what happens here. To the point of it being worth the first $10 installment <span class="e_wink" title=";)"><span class="e__">;)</span> </span></p> <p><br /> There is still a forum on delphi that mirrors the format of this forum...In fact the goal of beehive was to have it look and act like the DELPHI forums that both DSSI and EE started on. Both sites still exist and could easily be the place that people go to when the change takes place......There are all kinds of archives on both....</p> <p><br /> I have a gut feeling as you do that when it comes time to pony up, that there will be a few very active members that do so. The rest of the "lurkers" will go "lurk" somewhere else. I hope that I am proven wrong, as I enjoy this forum and want to see it succeed. Part of that success is the "free" exchange of ideas.....so I understand both sides of the issue. If it were up to me....the forum would stay the way it is.....After all....being exactly what it is.....is what makes it great.</p> <p><br /> I would suggest creating a poll as to how many people would pay for this site....you could easily take the number of views and get a percentage of theoretical success by doing some simple math.</p> <p><br /> I am not suggesting that David not move forward with this, as the results will be interesting.... I just have many reservations. </p> <p>If it were up to me, I think I would work on having a tiered system like many of the photography sites do. They have a "professional" forum, and a "general" forum. The professional portion is pay, and the general is not......</p> <p>Both forums happen to be active, and the free portion introduces the forum to new people on a continual basis. The biggest concern about going all pay is where will the newbies come from without some sort of free trial period or opportunity to see what all the fuss is about.....</p> <p><br /> I will miss your input if you choose to forgo the fee......I will most likely pay the fee at least once to see how things shake out.</p> <hr /><a name="a3725_33"></a><p><b>From: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.33">#33</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.27">#27</a>] 5 May 2006</p> You know how I feel - start the bus.<hr /><a name="a3725_34"></a><p><b>From: sprinter</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.34">#34</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> Hate to see this happen. But a close source is saying a new free forum is being started that will have all the features of this one and more. It's being formed now and should be operational next week, my understanding is the name will be engravingetcfree.<hr /><a name="a3725_35"></a><p><b>From: mikew</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.35">#35</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.29">#29</a>] 5 May 2006</p> I agree with Rodney, I guess I'm one of the lurkers that will be leaving. You may also want to consider the method that Saw Mill Creek is using, contributions. It seemed to work very well and if I'm correct there was a surplus after the drive. Good luck with your venture.<hr /><a name="a3725_36"></a><p><b>From: spudislander (WILLM)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.36">#36</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: bruce (BBSD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.33">#33</a>] 6 May 2006</p> Hi David,<br /> <br /> First let me sincerely wish you all the best in your future endeavours with engravingetc.<br /> <br /> I don't think I can add any more to what Rodney has stated. I do believe (hope I'm wrong) that switching to a pay site will spell the end to this great community that you have had the foresight to create.<br /> <br /> The success of this community comes from the open (free) exchange of industry information. Any change to that formula will spoil the recipe.<br /> <br /> I don't like to critique anybody's decisions without offering a different solution or point of view.<br /> <br /> You are not well enough developed as an organization to become a subscription based organization (see why I'm not joining below). As for revenue creation, I believe the business model would have been to sell advertising. Charge for classified listings. Sell additional products/services that are value added to the forum.<br /> <br /> I will not be joining the membership for the following reasons.<br /> <br /> 1. I am not paying to contribute to any forum.<br /> <br /> 2. There are not sufficient benefits to justify the cost of membership. i.e. special discounts on shipping, insurance, products, processing fees etc.<br /> <br /> 3. I believe that there will be another forum (Delphi or other) that will become what this forum is today for the free open exchange of ideas and information for this industry and related industries.<br /> <br /> I believe that the single biggest group to benefit from these forums are newbies. They come here and elsewhere to obtain the invaluable information provided from a large base of experienced professionals. I think a subscription site will reduce both ends of this formula leaving a <b>small core group who get enjoyment from the personal relationships </b>that they have developed over the past years of participation. Don't be blinded by the success of this site in believing that the membership will follow you into a paid business model.<br /> <br /> I do hope that you rethink your business model not for personal or selfish reasons but because I truly think you going down the wrong road and no matter how much determination and how much of a past trend setter you have been, once you start down this path, you may have a difficult or impossible means of returning to this point.<br /> <br /> edited<br /> Sorry Bruce message was for David<br /> <br /> Will<p class="edit_text">EDITED: 5 May 2006 by WILLM</p> <hr /><a name="a3725_37"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.37">#37</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>This forum has come out of David's pocket for a long while now. The drain must stop, in my opinion.</p> <p>Selling advertising is against one of our, (moderators), rules. It makes you be wary of what you say due to money issues. That has been a long standing complaint in magazines. We will not permit that to happen here.</p> <p>The only advertising allowed, and free at that, is for companies that give discounts to our members. We will do this as a service to our members, and any company that is found lacking in ethics or is giving members a problem, is GONE. We have no financial stake in them being gone, so we can do that with a clear conscience.</p> <p>David has left the Delphi site in operation, but we will not have the time to moderate there. It is available to all.</p> <p>There has been much talk, (privately by the moderators), about free access for a specific time for those that have an article accepted.</p> <p>Rodney, all you need to do is see if the editing David did on your article is acceptable to you, (another thing magazines do not do), and you will have that time free.</p> <p>Is the price right, wish I knew. We cannot grow without it and talking to other sites with contributions, they are haveing problems.</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 5 May 2006 by HARVEY-ONLY</p> <hr /><a name="a3725_38"></a><p><b>From: Mike (SPACE_ENGRAVERS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.38">#38</a>]<br /> 5 May 2006<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>All,<br /> I'm one of the newbies that have gotten tons of advise and help from this forum...would I pay for it? Probably, but at the same time I would be looking for the new ones that pop up. If I found a free one that had the same level of experience, then I would go with it...I'm a new business with all the new business expenses and the added expense of this, no matter how small, shows in my pocket book. But like I said, I'd probably pay because of the experience level of the people here and the help I've recieved.</p> <p> However, I would have to wonder if I'd be willing to pay if I were the experienced one. Seems like there are some people here that don't ever really ask questions but they sure do answer a lot. If I were one of those, would I be willing to pay to be giving advise? It would be like going to Microsoft and saying, "I've been working with your product for 20 years. I'll pay you XX dollars to become one of your tech support and you don't have to pay me anything." I'm just afraid that a lot of the experience will leave the board because of that reason. And that's the whole reason I'm here...</p> <p>Just my two cents (worth about .5 cents)</p> <p>Mike</p> <hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="EE" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="3725.39" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" class="button" value="Keep reading…" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.1">1-18</a>  19-38  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.39">39-58</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.59">59-78</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.79">79-98</a>  …  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=3725.219">219-220</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2024 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>