Full Version: Doming - testing the waters.
From: Terry-Morris [#47]
5 Apr 2005
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#45] 6 Apr 2005
Thanks for the info, It sounds like you have a good setup for mass production. I think I'll stick with UV for now as I don't do thousands, in fact my average domed order is 100 or less pieces, this does allow me to get a premium $$ for it though since large house don't want the work.
And I work from an office built onto my home so don't really have the space or money for the equipment. I like the idea of using book shelves with lights and plastic, I will have to remember that for future use.
From: Terry-Morris [#48]
5 Apr 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#47] 5 Apr 2005
Ken,
I just had an idea, if you have a heat roller type laminator you could try to use it to dry out the print. I would sandwich the print between two pieces of plain paper after it had air dried for 30-60 minutes then run it through the laminator once or even twice, I would think that would force it dry. Of course it might also destroy the print but it would be worth a test.
Just an idea!!
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#49]
5 Apr 2005
To: Terry-Morris [#48] 5 Apr 2005
Interesting idea, unfortunately I don't have a laminator. But it got me to thinking about the iron I've used for waxing my skis, wonder where it is. It looks like there've been plenty of ideas for heat sources, now I need to do some of my own experimenting.
Where can I get the MSDS for the epoxy. I'm hoping getting it on my skin isn't much of an issue. :-)
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#50]
5 Apr 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#49] 6 Apr 2005
Good idea. A dry iron set just below the boiling point should remove virtually all of the moisture in the ink and paper also. Just be sure that the coating on the paper can take the heat and you are set. It should take less than 20 seconds for each section, then a partial minute to cool and expel the moisture.
We used to bake stacks of 2,000 record labels at 150* overnight to expel all moisture. 200* and one thickness of paper should take those few seconds.
Good luck, and let us know.
From: Terry-Morris [#51]
5 Apr 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#49] 6 Apr 2005
You can get the MSDS sheet here http://www.epoxies.com/msds/60-7155uvresin.pdf It is listed as "Mild skin sensitizer and mild eye irritant".
Some people are sensitive to it and should wear latex gloves. Myself I have had no reaction to it after handling it for 4+ years now. By the way you can use rubbing alcohol to clean it up.
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#52]
6 Apr 2005
To: JayBeeOz [#24] 7 Apr 2005
John,
I believe you have UVA and UVC reversed. After reading your posts I decided to try and get an 'A' bulb. Found out blacklights are UVA, and sterilization lights are UVC.
Don't know if the UVC will help with the epoxy sold by Ultradome and Coast Graphic Supply. They're formulated specifically for a blacklight, with a cure frequency of 365nm. (Their supplier has other broad-spectrum high intensity formulas too. I suspect you're using a broad spectrum formulation given the information in your various posts.)
From: JayBeeOz [#53]
7 Apr 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#52] 7 Apr 2005
Ken
You are right, my apologies, in my original post where I described the lamps, I did get the A & C back to front. UVA is the normal Blacklight, UVC is the dangerous one. In one of my other posts where I described the commercial unit, I did get the bulbs the right way around.... Oh well...At least I know that my cabinet is germ free!!:-)
I'm not sure about the curing frequency of the Epoxy that I use, only that UVC alone will not cure it completely. It will only skin the surface of the epoxy (It does this within a minute or two). Before I fitted timers to the cabinet, I forgot about a batch of badges that stayed under the UVC Lamps for about 6 hours. It may have made the skin a micron thicker, but the epoxy still remained liquid under the skin. I think the advantages to using the UVC are a clearer looking Dome, quick skinning stops dust and bugs from settling on the surface, and from what I have read, seems to remove the tacky feeling of the soft epoxy, plus the fast curing times.
I will stress though, to anyone thinking about experimenting with the UVC lamps, they may look innocent enough but they ARE dangerous, even short exposure to them can burn your skin or the retinas of your eyes. PLEASE be careful.
John
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#54]
7 Apr 2005
To: JayBeeOz [#53] 7 Apr 2005
I did my first piece with the flexible epoxy yesterday. I forgot about it after the timer went off. I think it was under the light for 40 min. It doesn't feel tacky to the touch. It was 2" from 2 15W blacklights. I'm wondering if the tackiness requires more time/power to cure. Since I'm doing single pieces under a very small box dust and bugs are not an issue. Now if I had to scale up production...
A quick film would allow me to make a higher dome. My box gets a little warm and the epoxy flows off if too high.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#55]
7 Apr 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#54] 7 Apr 2005
Best way to keep the heat down if it affects the product is to put a small whisper fan over a hole over a lamp socket blowing out. Lay the product on a small furnace filter so air and not dust will be drawn into the box.
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#56]
7 Apr 2005
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#55] 7 Apr 2005
From: JayBeeOz [#57]
8 Apr 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#54] 8 Apr 2005
Ken
Its easy to forget about those little badges just laying there getting a tan...It happened to me frequently. I ended up getting a couple of Timers for a small toaster oven from the oven manufacturers spare part division. Tthey are Mechanical/Electrical timers usually with a 30 - 60 minute range. Spin them around to how many minutes you want to cure for and they 'tick' away and turn off the lamps for you. (They have to be hard wired into the lights circuit)
My cabinet has two seperate areas, the top contains 4x 15W Blacklights and the bottom 4x 15 UVC tubes. (these are stamped GE/Hitachi). The two sections are light tight, so not a lot of airflow. I do however have the Ballasts that drive the tubes, and the Flourecent Starters in a seperate section that is isolated from the curing chambers and have vent holes for cooling.
The badges get only just warm but not warm enough to cause the epoxy to flow off the edge. If you increased the distance another inch and a 1/4, (I think that works out to around the 80mm mark, this may help with the heat side of things. I have found that if I have too much epoxy on the surface I tend to get "Mattress" corners on the badges after curing under the UVC Lamps. Little ripples that start at each corner and and run in towards the middle. My domes are normally around 2 - 3mm high in the very centre of the badge.
John
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#58]
8 Apr 2005
To: JayBeeOz [#57] 8 Apr 2005
Yesterday I added a 0.5" hole over each bulbs base, and put 1/8" raisers under the box. It made a big difference.
I also expanded the keyring hole to 0.2". When the hole is too small the surface tension pulls the epoxy over it. (and therefore into it.)
==
For those following this thread the HP Premium Plus Glossy Photo Paper won't work. I had previously posted that the paper will and the ink won't. The paper won't. (I didn't check my test sample well enough the other day.) I have some other papers I plan on trying.
From: Barbara (RGILE) [#59]
8 Apr 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#6] 8 Apr 2005
Ken,
As a former nail technician, I used UV light to make acrylic gel fingernails. I had a UV Lamp that was big enough inside for a whole hand to cure. Perhaps that would work and be relatively cheaper than making one. You could slip small item into it, but not larger ones.
Just a thought. You never know what might work for someone.
Barbara
RGile Engravers
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#60]
8 Apr 2005
To: Barbara (RGILE) [#59] 12 Apr 2005
My box is working well for me. Do you have any idea what the nail curer cost, or where to get them. Others may be interested, who don't want to wire up their own box.
From: GBengraver [#61]
8 Apr 2005
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#39] 8 Apr 2005
Is the 2 part resin readily available?
Do you need to special order them from a wholesaler?
Is odor an issue with either method?
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#62]
8 Apr 2005
To: GBengraver [#61] 15 Apr 2005
Its easilky available , I live in african country , South africa and I have multiple sources here , so I hardly doubt that in the USA it would be even easier to get.
We have no issues with it odor or irritant wise , our applicator ladies wear gloves and safety glasses , prolonged contact can cause irritations and they arent really such great stuff to work with , having all sorts of horrible sounding chemical names in em like isocyantes - I tend to think anything with cyanide in its name (or any derivative of) is probaly a little nasty.
It will definately irritate your eyes if you get it into them.
You can try it real easy by getting a dispenser type gun and carts , lots of doming suppliers keep it , a local search for 2 part water clear resin or urethane doming , epoxy doming etc should bring a few names up
If you want to use bulk and get the benefits of the much cheaper price , you need a mixer and dispenser which can cost at least $2k or more
From: Barbara (RGILE) [#63]
12 Apr 2005
To: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#60] 12 Apr 2005
Hi Ken,
I got mine from a Hairdressing supplier. They run around 100.00 and the material is nail acrylic and is also the same stuff that dentist's use for bonding teeth. So a dental supplier would also be a good avenue for the acrylic. After it's cured it leaves a sticky surface that is taken off with a soulotion of alcohal. so I hope this helps a little.
It's would be good for small jobs.
Barbara
From: lisa (LISASANDERS) [#64]
2 May 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#13] 2 May 2005
Hi David...
My husband and I attended the sublimation class at Coast Graphics on April 9th and saw you there. We were very impressed with your work - Fantastic stuff!
We purchased the doming epoxy while there and have just tried it out for the first time on a photograph. It didn't adhere to the photo. Can you tell us why? It looked great - no bubbles, shiny, etc. - but it didn't stick. What materials can we dome on? Evidently not photographs? I'm going to try it on a name badge next and am assuming it will turn out just fine.
Thanks for your help....
From: Ken D. (KDEVORY) [#65]
2 May 2005
To: lisa (LISASANDERS) [#64] 2 May 2005
Lisa,
It depends on the "paper" and the ink. Yes you can dome photos, sometimes.
First test the paper without the photo. It won't stick to HP premium plus photo glossy, but will stick to my ordinary office paper. It also sticks to some polyester paper I have. According to some other posts its due to UV inhibitors in some papers and inks. They leach into the epoxy forming a thin layer that won't cure. -I'm assuming you're using UV cure epoxy.
I also found that I need to dry out the ink. There's an old stove here with a pilot light. during my testing with small photos I put them on a piece of glass on the stove top above the pilot. For production I'd try some of the other suggestions made.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#66]
2 May 2005
To: lisa (LISASANDERS) [#64] 2 May 2005
Hi Lisa,
It was nice to meet you at the CGS "Learning Center" event. I'm happy to hear you're taking the plunge into epoxy doming.
The fact that some substrates don't lend themselves to doming, has been covered, either in this thread or another. I'm not sure which.
The short story is, some paper/ink combinations don't work. You're experiencing that for yourself.
What substrate are you using for the namebadge? Metal and plastic should be fine. If you're using a paper, it will probably need to be poly-based.
If you use a paper, make sure your ink is completely dry before doming.
EDITED: 2 May 2005 by DGL
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