Full Version: J. Stephen Spence joins EJ (unmoderated)
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#18]
31 Mar 2005
To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#14] 31 Mar 2005
Pete,
You do not have to moderate your posts one bit. If you feel strongly about an issue, post it that way. You have not increased my workload one tiny bit. All that you said is there and will remain there.
We need all viewpoints here or we lose a lot. Agree or disagree, who cares, just post it. Both sides are truly necessary to help form an 'informed' opinion.
A one way street is not good for half of the people that use it.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#19]
31 Mar 2005
To: ALL
I've read the recent posts, and although some don't warrant a response, I'll address some of your points in this message:
1) This is the first time, on this forum, the Stephen Spence matter has come to light.
2) Since last year, either privately or publicly, there have been links to news stories and court proceedings, which are a matter of public record. Some, I've seen. Others, I haven't.
Last I heard, a trial was supposed to take place in the early part of March. I have no knowledge of the trial taking place, nor the outcome.
3) I could have easily let the mention of Stephen Spence (joining EJ) go unheralded, although, I knew eventually, the topic of his personal travails would come up. As uncomfortable as this thread has become, I feel it's better to "air it out" than to "bottle it up."
4) I'm in favor of full amnesty, if a person has rehabilitated himself. If, in the end, the worst is true and Stephen loses his freedom, by the laws of our land, at some point, he'll have repaid his debt to society.
Those who feel strongly that his debt will NEVER be repaid, will be in the position of making a choice.
They can choose to subscribe to a magazine, which carries his articles, or not. Read his articles, or not. Attend his seminars, or not.
5) The penchant for people to make staunch judgement calls, based on assumption, is nothing new and not surprising. That's always much easier than gathering facts. I'm willing to continue the discussion based on facts. In absence of new information, I've already made my points.
6) The option of people reviving the Delphi forum was genuine and not a "My way or the highway" message.
The Delphi forum is fully functional - just inactive. Using it or not is up to those who feel this forum isn't for them. As I said, it's a viable option.
I've always been for ultimate freedom of choice. I encourage you to use yours.
David Lavaneri
Forum Host/Moderator
EDITED: 31 Mar 2005 by DGL
From: Frazee1 [#20]
31 Mar 2005
To: ALL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#21]
31 Mar 2005
To: Frazee1 [#20] 1 Apr 2005
Thank you John. Very well put.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#22]
1 Apr 2005
To: Frazee1 [#20] 1 Apr 2005
John,
What I am POSITIVE of is that I do not want to hear from Mr Spence.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would be interested in what he has to say. But then, what do I know, I could never figure out why all of those people would take their kids to Neverland Ranch.
If he did happen to take advantage of David's generous invitation it would be just horrible if some of us uncaring posters pointed out his little faults and made him uncomfortable. I would not have to be concerned with giving him a break for now if he had not been invited to participate in the forum to begin with.
You seem to feel more strongly when the the problem is in your community.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#23]
1 Apr 2005
To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#22] 1 Apr 2005
Pete,
It's highly unlikely Stephen will visit the forum. That would have held true, even before the allegations, that you seem to regard as fact.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#24]
1 Apr 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#23] 1 Apr 2005
David,
It is clear that some of us consider the fact that he is accused enough reason not to be even remotely associated with him until the results are in. On the other hand, it is also clear that some, like you, feel strongly that he is innocent until proven guilty and he is no threat to society unless he is convicted.
It is unlikely that either camp is going to radically change their view. In that light, I suggest that we all drop this issue since discussing it is not likely to strengthen anyone's postion or change anyone's mind. About the only result we can expect from this point on is the generation of ill feelings over a subject that we have no control over. I could easily continue to respond to most of these posts, but my position is clear and I would accomplish very little except for personal satisfaction in stating my case.
Why don't we just move on. John was correct when he indicated it is not a POSITIVE topic for the forum.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#25]
1 Apr 2005
To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#24] 1 Apr 2005
Pete,
Could it be that we've finally found a point on which to concur?
I think so, and I agree with your assessment that we've all made our points, and only time and the slow-moving wheels of justice will have the final say.
And Pete, I mean this - Thank you.
Your conciliatory message, was the right post, at the right time.
We have a wealth of interesting topics to discuss. Let's.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Frazee1 [#26]
1 Apr 2005
To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#22] 1 Apr 2005
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#27]
1 Apr 2005
To: Frazee1 [#26] 1 Apr 2005
Sorry to hear about your psycological problems, that probably explains your position on this. It also appears I am more selective in chosing who I am willing to "learn" from. Thanks for not forcing it on me.
From: Rallyguy [#28]
1 Apr 2005
To: Frazee1 [#26] 1 Apr 2005
You have to consider the evidence in either case....In your case it was simply your word against some kid's......In Mr Spence's case, they took a camera out of the bathroom as well as tapes that were made with the recording equipment, and he was found to have posession of child pornography. Now I look at both cases differently because of the evidence that had been gathered. Everyone has to make their own moral choice on how to deal with someone that has been charged but not yet through a trial, but I would choose based on what I thought was reasonable to believe based on the evidence that they have collected.
Trust me, they don't charge people with things like this unless they can back it up with evidence. Law enforcement wants to be reliable and trustworthy with the public, and charging people for stuff that isn't supported by evidence is just silly for them to do, particulalry in cases like these. I am not claiming that law enforcement is perfect. There have been many times when they have made mistakes that have let bad people off, but it is far more rare when they charge someone that is entirely innocent.
Your situation was quite different than his in my opinion. They had no supporting evidence other than his word against yours.
Brian G.
From: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE) [#29]
1 Apr 2005
To: ALL
From: gt350ed [#30]
1 Apr 2005
To: ALL
I agree with David, Pete and others. Points have been made. Nothing will be settled. So, lets move on.
It would be my suggestion that we delete this thread in order to move on. Otherwise, people will keep adding posts. Which is o.k. if that's what the concensus is.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#31]
2 Apr 2005
To: gt350ed [#30] 2 Apr 2005
Ed,
It's important to me that people be able to voice their opinion on this matter. I think most who may come upon this thread will see their opinion mirrored by those of previous posters and won't feel the need to duplicate what's already been said.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: gt350ed [#32]
2 Apr 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#31] 2 Apr 2005
From: LL (LL40) [#33]
2 Apr 2005
To: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE) [#29] 2 Apr 2005
Well now...
This ain't your ordinary Engraver's Forum!
Spirited, well articulated exchanges of philosophies, beliefs and opinions.
I gotta make Quark's next year.
Keep on Keepin' on!
LL
From: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE) [#34]
2 Apr 2005
To: LL (LL40) [#33] 3 Apr 2005
Lloyd,
Quarks was TAME compared to this thread.
What I really like is that we can all share our opinions here, good bad or otherwise, then go play in the Quarks sandbox and be nice......pretty cool
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#35]
2 Apr 2005
To: LL (LL40) [#33] 3 Apr 2005
LLoyd,
I'm heading out for a little shopping trip with the family. When I get back, I think you'll find the direction I plan to take this very interesting.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: JHayes55 [#36]
2 Apr 2005
To: ALL
I think an important point of all of this is that we can "disagree with each
other without being disagreeable"
Everyone has opinons. The important thing is to listen and if we want
to disagree then do so in manner that is appropriate.
Glad to see that we can do that here.
From: precisionlaser [#37]
2 Apr 2005
To: ALL
Yes...I second Joe's note. Let's please, please, please keep this forum focused on information, techniques, tips, advice, etc. and not let it follow another well-known forum into a degenerated state of name-calling, personal insults, complaints and paranoid ravings. This forum is heavily oriented toward good meaty information and respectful exchanges, and I for one want to see it stay that way.
Mark
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