Full Version: J. Stephen Spence joins EJ (unmoderated)
From: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE) [#29]
1 Apr 2005
To: ALL
From: gt350ed [#30]
1 Apr 2005
To: ALL
I agree with David, Pete and others. Points have been made. Nothing will be settled. So, lets move on.
It would be my suggestion that we delete this thread in order to move on. Otherwise, people will keep adding posts. Which is o.k. if that's what the concensus is.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#31]
2 Apr 2005
To: gt350ed [#30] 2 Apr 2005
Ed,
It's important to me that people be able to voice their opinion on this matter. I think most who may come upon this thread will see their opinion mirrored by those of previous posters and won't feel the need to duplicate what's already been said.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: gt350ed [#32]
2 Apr 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#31] 2 Apr 2005
From: LL (LL40) [#33]
2 Apr 2005
To: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE) [#29] 2 Apr 2005
Well now...
This ain't your ordinary Engraver's Forum!
Spirited, well articulated exchanges of philosophies, beliefs and opinions.
I gotta make Quark's next year.
Keep on Keepin' on!
LL
From: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE) [#34]
2 Apr 2005
To: LL (LL40) [#33] 3 Apr 2005
Lloyd,
Quarks was TAME compared to this thread.
What I really like is that we can all share our opinions here, good bad or otherwise, then go play in the Quarks sandbox and be nice......pretty cool
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#35]
2 Apr 2005
To: LL (LL40) [#33] 3 Apr 2005
LLoyd,
I'm heading out for a little shopping trip with the family. When I get back, I think you'll find the direction I plan to take this very interesting.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: JHayes55 [#36]
2 Apr 2005
To: ALL
I think an important point of all of this is that we can "disagree with each
other without being disagreeable"
Everyone has opinons. The important thing is to listen and if we want
to disagree then do so in manner that is appropriate.
Glad to see that we can do that here.
From: precisionlaser [#37]
2 Apr 2005
To: ALL
Yes...I second Joe's note. Let's please, please, please keep this forum focused on information, techniques, tips, advice, etc. and not let it follow another well-known forum into a degenerated state of name-calling, personal insults, complaints and paranoid ravings. This forum is heavily oriented toward good meaty information and respectful exchanges, and I for one want to see it stay that way.
Mark
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#38]
2 Apr 2005
To: ALL
Friends,
I am so impressed and pleased with the direction this thread has gone. I recommend we all take note of what has happened here and the message that is being sent. I, as a moderator, will do exactly that.
I am one who feels strongly about keeping the discussions here positive, productive and factual. I am so glad to see that I am in good company.
I do not ever want this to become a place for us to vent or make personal attacks. I have been on other forums where that tone has turned me off so much that I just don't go there much anymore. This forum is too important to me and my business to allow that to happen.
Even in situations dealing with a vendor customer service issue, I would like to see us all just lay out the facts and allow the others to draw their own conclusions. I wouldn't consider this vendor bashing at all, just sharing an experience.
It's all good! :-)
EDITED: 2 Apr 2005 by DATAKES
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#39]
2 Apr 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#38] 3 Apr 2005
David,
It was June 25th of last year when I first heard of this story. Even though it was industry news, albeit of the worst kind, I was tempted to post the story.
The actual arrest took place May 17th of last year; oddly enough, just shortly after the ARA show in Vegas, where I spoke to Stephen, face-to-face, for the very first time.
After discussing my dilemma with a few people, I decided not to post. That decision was based on the personal nature of the news.
If the allegations had (i.e.) been based on falsifying test reports of laser equipment, or any other scenario which could directly affect a person's buying decisions, I would have posted immediately.
Since news of the arrest broke on DSSI first, I decided to hang back, and was actually surprised it didn't become a topic here.
My prediction is that Stephen will regain his prominence. Barring a loss of freedom.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#40]
2 Apr 2005
To: Rallyguy [#28] 3 Apr 2005
Brian,
You seem to be up on the facts of this story more than most. I know there was a preliminary trial, set for early January, which (reportedly) was continued to early March. The 4th, I believe.
Any news as to if the trial actually took place?
I've asked the same question of another DSSI/EE forum member, who was interested in the proceedings.
No news yet.
The public's tolerance of some crimes, over others, has always struck me as odd. I always thought murder was the highest crime a person could possibly commit.
O.J. Simpson, a person found responsible (in civil court) for a double homicide, would probably win a popularity contest over Stephen Spence.
Bizarre.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 3 Apr 2005 by DGL
From: UncleSteve [#41]
3 Apr 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#40] 3 Apr 2005
From: Rallyguy [#42]
3 Apr 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#39] 3 Apr 2005
I had a personal interest in the case because we had a similar problem with one of our employees that came up several weeks after the spence situation came up. He was suspended without pay immidiately until things could be sorted out. He ended up pleading guilty and is awaiting sentancing. He is expected to get 30 years for his offenses. He has been in jail unable to post bond so he was basicly unavailable for work the whole time (a good thing in my opinion). This was a person that I had alot of trust in and brought into the fold as our first sales person. It was quite a shock to find out what he was accused of and what he was guilty of. He denied everything until several people (kids) came out and corroborated several things.
The court system in Steve Spences area seems to work at a much slower pace than ours does. Information is difficult to find. I believe the last time I asked Tammy, she said that the court wouldn't share any new information with her. Perhaps you have to be a press member to get current information on a case. I would suggest that if you are really interested in finding out what happened, that you take the time to call either the court or the local news that broke the story to see what the progress is. There are court documents that should be available for you to see that should tell a clearer picture. They are all public record, but you need to have them mailed to you.
The initial document would be the affidavid that they used in the initial search. It will report what was found and what was said during the arrest if anything was said at all.
Good luck on your quest for information.
Information on our employees situation can be found here http://www.crime-research.org/news/16.08.2004/566/ His name is David Kanouse.
I don't know what you think of when you think of "child pornography", but it's not a sweet innocent thing that should be swept off as no big deal. Most of the pictures that these guys have are awefull. Don't put your head in the sand and think its like the soft porn industry....these kids are victims, being subjected to what some would consider a form of physical and mental torture. We're talking about sex acts against children, not bath pictures.
Regarding the OJ statement.....I agree. In this day and age people that committ these crimes serve a life sentance no matter how soon they get out. As far as I am concerned they are impossible to rehabilitate. Look at the recent murders in FL recently by guys that had been released and were on sexual predator lists. It's not as simple as just sending the guy to jail....it's an addiction for them. That's why they trade the pornography and have collections. I learned an immense amount from the DA and other investigators that worked on the case against our former employee.
ÂÂÂÂÂ
Brian G.
EDITED: 3 Apr 2005 by RALLYGUY
From: LL (LL40) [#43]
3 Apr 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#35] 3 Apr 2005
A short editorial...(important probably only to me ;-)
Our industry is absolutely unique and wonderful. We bring creativity and flair into people's lives.
We are artists and technicians, entrepreneurs extraodinaire. We are business men and women who help this world go 'round. We vote (or not) and select the leaders of our states and country.
I believe an editorial section to this forum is in order. To successfully present personal views and opinions that provoke thoughful discussion is a good thing.
Our industry is a microcosm of and within the rest of the world. Our successes and tribulations reflect those of other idustry leaders and people of note.
I look forward to hearing (phone number attached) or reading more of what everyone has to say about darned near anything that involves what we do or the world around us. Thus the "Editorial Section".
If the Wall Street Journal or Washington Post can do it, why shouldn't we? (Rhetorical qustion)
Just a thought. Thanks for "listening" (if you got this far).
LL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#44]
3 Apr 2005
To: UncleSteve [#41] 3 Apr 2005
Steve,
Your question is particularly timely. This week, Johnny Cochran, the person, arguably, most responsible for the acquital of O.J. Simpson, passed away.
Johnny once made the comment, "At the risk of breaking peoples' illusions, the color of justice is green."
While your question is a good one, and certainly up for debate, it's safe to say, with Johnny's comment in mind, Michael Jackson stands a better chance of retaining his freedom than Stephen.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 3 Apr 2005 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#45]
3 Apr 2005
To: LL (LL40) [#43] 3 Apr 2005
Lloyd,
If you look down the left-hand column of folders, you'll see an "Editorials" folder.
Naturally, I so agreed with your statement, that the Editorial folder was one of the first created on our original Delphi forum.
The first editorial I wrote, was a scathing opinion of what I felt was wrong with the Awards & Engraving Magazine's public forum, which was basically that censorship and the conscious effort to shield viewers from other avenues of information, which A&E viewed as competition, amounted to a supreme disservice the the industry.
I didn't do this behind the back of A&E. I actually invited the Editor, Steve Wieber, to view the editorial and provide a rebuttal. No reply, either public or private.
When I raised the issue on their forum, people took exception to my stance, and suggested, if I felt a better job could be done, I should start a forum of my own.
Here we are.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#46]
3 Apr 2005
To: Rallyguy [#42] 3 Apr 2005
Brian,
It's not pornography that people have a problem with, it's, as you point out, "Child Pornography" that's found so offensive. And rightly so.
Adult "entertainment" is a huge industry (understatement).
Mainstreamed to the point that, if a person so chooses, they can view highly explicit sexual content in the privacy of their hotel rooms.
These aren't "No-tell Motels." They're giants of their industry and the major corporations behind the purveyance of porn, though they loosely conceal their identity, are the likes of Time Warner etc., etc.
As far as the specific details of Stephen's case, while curious, I'll leave the uncovering of those facts to others.
I'm not looking for a babysitter. As long as Stephen's articles contain relevant and late-breaking news of our industry, I'll continue to read them.
Even if they eminate from a prison cell.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Rallyguy [#47]
3 Apr 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#46] 3 Apr 2005
I find it hard to believe that his articles would really have any "late breaking news". They were pretty well antiquated prior to his troubles. Many of his writings lacked a global view of the sublimation industry, and were lacking in new products. I suspected that to be the case because of where most of his funding came from.
I feel that you need to let the legal system run its course, but I also feel that it's important that if you intend on touting the guy that people know what he has been accused of.
Yes it can be argued that it shouldn't matter, but in the end if he is found guilty, you can be the proud financial supporter of a guy that was causing children to be sexually abused. You also may argue that he wasn't causing abuse himself, but without a market you don't need a product....Kind of makes you think about it differently when you put it in that perspective doesn't it?
I'm curious if EJ is even aware of his legal problems. Do you know if they are or not? This may be something worthy of my own activism. :)
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#48]
3 Apr 2005
To: Rallyguy [#47] 3 Apr 2005
Brian,
EJ is definitely aware.
Your reference to activism, points to my prediction that Stephen, assuming he has relevant information to put forth, will once again, rise to prominence.
As a general rule, people choose to complain about something, in the hope that if enough people hear the complaint, someone, other than themselves, will take a pro-active stance and make somehing happen.
Take my rant about the absence of an ethics committee in our industry's most prominent trade organization. I wasn't content with ranting on a public forum. I took it upon myself to seek out the Executive Director of ARA and raise the issue directly.
Didn't have an immediate impact, but who knows?; maybe that seed being planted will spark the debate within the organization.
So far, nobody's demanded that the EJ banner at the top of this page be removed, as a result of this thread.
That doesn't surprise me. In the long run, people really don't care.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 3 Apr 2005 by DGL
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