Full Version: Braille anyone?

From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#13]
 16 May 2006
To: Puck (PUCKERBRUSH) [#12] 16 May 2006

Puck, you're liable man. You can decline orders or get a written statement exhonerating you from culpability in advance.

If this hospital is ever sued for non-compliance, who do you think will be included in the suit? The signage manufacturer today is as culpable as the client. Beware!

EDITED: 17 May 2006 by BIGPIXEL

From: Puck (PUCKERBRUSH) [#14]
 16 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#13] 16 May 2006

Hmmm...I'll check that out.

So what your saying is, if I take a phone order, fax, etc. for a sign, make that sign, ship that sign and they place that sign up where they want it that I will be liable because I didn't make a ADA sign which was not ordered? How am I suppose to know when making a sign if it has to be ADA? Wouldn't from what your saying mean that every sign I make be it for a school, hospital, service station, electrical company, etc all have to be ADA then?

Just asking since you seem to be pretty determined with this ADA signage stuff. Picking your brain for more information specially since I'm getting ready to pitch a whole new sign system for them.

I'm thinking this is one of the reasons I never went any further with doing ADA signs than I had to................


Puck

From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#15]
 16 May 2006
To: Puck (PUCKERBRUSH) [#14] 16 May 2006

quote:
Wouldn't from what your saying mean that every sign I make be it for a school, hospital, service station, electrical company, etc all have to be ADA then?


Yes.

That's the law today. Its all about accessibility for handicapped people. The era of design it as you want for visually oriented readers is over. Actually it's been over since 1992. Handicapped people want to get around places just like you and I. Can you blame them?

But please read my other posts again. There is a marketing angle here that can make you money, create a niche market for you.

It sounds like no one in Idaho understands this code very well. Learn it yourself and promote with just the right amount of scare tactics.

EDITED: 17 May 2006 by BIGPIXEL

From: sprinter [#16]
 16 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#15] 17 May 2006

It may be law, but one of those laws that rarely is enforced. It has been proposed at least 7 times to rewrite it since 1992 and nothing has been done. OSHA doesn't enforce it, states don't enforce it, local inspectors don't enforce it. The real problem is who enforces it or better yet who do you report it to? With all the governmental cutbacks, it seems ADA has fallen in the cracks or has been swept under the rug. It's really a shame, the law had some merits, but from day one enforcement has been a grey area that was never funded or resolved. Some states and local governments have changed some building codes for accessibility for the handicapped, but most have not added requirements for signage.

EDITED: 16 May 2006 by SPRINTER

From: Puck (PUCKERBRUSH) [#17]
 16 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#15] 17 May 2006

To close to retiring to do another big niche like that but maybe this thread will get some others to thinking about it.

Guess I'll push a little harder for that new sign system, one I can just order pre-made thats already ADA set up.

Puck

From: Button (LASERCHICK) [#18]
 16 May 2006
To: Puck (PUCKERBRUSH) [#17] 17 May 2006

Puck,
Where are you at in Idaho? I am in Pocatello and just starting to do ADA signage.

From: Puck (PUCKERBRUSH) [#19]
 17 May 2006
To: Button (LASERCHICK) [#18] 17 May 2006

Hi! We're not to far apart, I'm close to Boise for now. Should be here about another year and then moving up close to Council/Tamarack (spelling?) area.

Puck

From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#20]
 17 May 2006
To: sprinter [#16] 17 May 2006

A sad commentary actually. We have become a country that does things only if we feel we'll be penalized if we don't, not because its the right thing to do.....

From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#21]
 17 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#20] 17 May 2006

Once working a job that was constantly hassled by OSHA for an infraction that caused an accident about a year prior to me coming on staff, I saw the hassle they had to go through and all it takes is one time for them to nail you on one item not up to code and you are almost marked for life. I think this is dependent on the state though. I know that OSHA (as well as the Board of Health) seem to be a little more lax in Oklahoma than they are in Texas. To me personally, I don't think the ADA thing is that big of a deal, but like I said, all it takes is one time.

From: Puck (PUCKERBRUSH) [#22]
 17 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#20] 17 May 2006

Just wanted you to know that I took care of it today and the ball is rolling for them to come up to ADA standards.

Puck

From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#23]
 17 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#21] 18 May 2006

Franklin, I know where you're coming from, trust me here. I'm not a liberal politically, quite the contrary. But of the many legislated things you and I are forced to deal with in business, the ADA is really a positive thing. It suggests that handicapped individuals have the same access to services that you and I enjoy every day. That's all. Selling this concept to our customers becomes something akin to evangelicalism. It's a hard issue to get your mind around from a business perspective. I can't think of another like kind situation where a supplier must be an educator to his customer.

From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#24]
 17 May 2006
To: Puck (PUCKERBRUSH) [#22] 18 May 2006

Good for you Puck.

You know, all the years I was in business selling ADA compliant signage I mumbled and complained about it too. That $50 vinyl lettered room sign became a much more difficult and expensive sign to manufacture overnight in 1992. But if you really think about what this code means and what it does, you can't help but appreciate it.

The next step though is making a business plan adjustment that accomodates a higher price point for such mandated signage. Its a win/win situation in my book. Legally blind individuals end up with signage they can read and you end up with greater profit margins.

Its still a PIA to fabricate but what the hey?

From: UncleSteve [#25]
 17 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#24] 18 May 2006

I still don't understand the requirement for braille on drive-up ATM's! :S 


From: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#26]
 18 May 2006
To: UncleSteve [#25] 18 May 2006

The driver isn't the only one that can reach a drive-up ATM. The driver can pull up a bit further and the rear passenger can then be in front of the ATM.

From: Zonas [#27]
 18 May 2006
To: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#24] 18 May 2006

"But if you really think about what this code means and what it does, you can't help but appreciate it."

YES! My previous job was computer specialist with a hospital. One job I took on was setting up a computer for a blind lady that typed transcripts. Having to put myself in 'her place' and get everything set up was a very awaking experience. We worked together making metal 'stickers' to place on special keys, buttons, etc. When done she became one of the fastest (with least errors too) transcripers on staff. Everytime I make a braille sign I think of her and comments she made to me while working together. I support the ADA for helping to make the world more accessible to everyone. I enjoy doing braille signs, even though they are time consuming, they are profitable.

Zona

From: Mike (BIGPIXEL) [#28]
 18 May 2006
To: Zonas [#27] 18 May 2006

Now thats an inspirational story Zona. I felt much the same way about it all. The ADA actually helped expand my consciousness.

I had one hospital administrator tell me that rather than modify their sign system they'd just have some candystriper (high school aid) lead a sight impared person to where they needed to go. Made sense to a bureaucrat I suppose but handicapped people don't like or want that. They want to be empowered to do it themselves like everyone else. The ADA simply makes sense and its the right thing to do.

end of morality rant.....we now return to your regularly scheduled program.......

From: Angie [#29]
 19 May 2006
To: Zonas [#9] 19 May 2006

Zona,

I already know you are a Raster Braille licensee since 2000 and you have also been a great customer! I think you are a little confused. I was speaking with Kate from X-Treme Graphics about outsourcing her Braille job because she hasn't received her Raster Kit yet. We wanted to help her out so she didn't lose her first Raster Braille signage job.

We market to contractors and architects so they can get the jobs and resell the signs to the end user. Also we are strictly a wholesale interior signage company and we don't compete with our customers.

Angie

From: sprinter [#30]
 19 May 2006
To: Angie [#29] 19 May 2006

Angie,

You stated: We market to contractors and architects so they can get the jobs and resell the signs to the end user. Also we are strictly a wholesale interior signage company and we don't compete with our customers.

That is why I would never do business with your company! Contractors and architects are your Raster Braille licensee customers! You can't have it both ways.

From: Funkmeister (FUNKY) [#31]
 19 May 2006
To: D-zines (X-TREMEGRAPHICS) [#1] Unread

Hey... Maybe your the person I need to talk to. Maybe we can work something out here.
I have a customer that has to have a design made for his truck. He gave me the layout and what he wants on the piece of stanless steel. I cant come up with a corner border or some kind of design for each end of the layout. Think you may be able to help me out. This has been in the shop for a month now and he's always going to come by, but hasn't made it yet. He's a truck driver that has a large rig he is showing. If I mail you the layout that I came up with, do you think you could throw a couple different designs on it for me? I'd be willing to pay you. He's very picky but wil not give me any direction to go with this. Let me know and I will email a copy of the layout.
I might know someone here that may be able to help you out on the braille stuff. I will contact them today and have them contact you via email. They do alot of ada stuff and signs like you might want.
Thanks

From: Zonas [#32]
 19 May 2006
To: Angie [#29] 19 May 2006

Sprinter posted before I got a chance to read. ALL my braille customers are contractors and architects that is why I'm so upset with the expanded marketing your are doing. They are expecting me to match your bids.

Zona

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