Full Version: Engrave/hold piggy bank on flatbed table
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#1]
17 Aug 2005
To: ALL
My latest self-imposed challenge is to try and figure out how to hold a piggy bank on a flatbed table so it can be engraved. I have a self-centering vise and have made longer (about 4") pins to help hold it but I have yet to come up with a satisfactory arrangement that holds the pig tightly enough to keep it from rocking around.
The pig needs to be engraved on its side so it has to lay on its side.
I vaguely remember seeing a thread where someone was suggesting using hot-melt glue to make a holder but I don't remember the details and whether it will work on something this large.
Does anyone have a sugestion?
From: BobT [#2]
17 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#1] 17 Aug 2005
Modeling Clay or Silly Putty does a great job. It just kind of forms to anything you want and not too big of a mess.
BobT
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#3]
17 Aug 2005
To: BobT [#2] 18 Aug 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4]
17 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#1] 17 Aug 2005
Are you talking about diamond drag or laser engraving?
The banks I've engraved (diamond-drag) need to be held in a workholding vise with some depth to it. Most are made of stainless steel and take quite a bit of pressure to engrave.
Unless you can hold it solidly, the engraving will look like Arabic. >.<
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#5]
17 Aug 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#4] 17 Aug 2005
Thanks for replying - here are some more details/background info.
I'm trying to figure out how to drag a silverplated pig. I have 2 Xenetechs - 1313 and 1625. I have a toll engraver/vendor that does my odd-shaped stuff. I have a cylinder attachment on order and bought a self-centering vice from Allgraphics with the idea of moving my odd-shaped stuff in-house as much as possible. The pig is one of the few things that I can't figure out how to hold. The depth is an issue since the engraver is a flatbed - unlike my vendor's pantograph. I made some longer pins that go in the vice in order to be able to grab the pig along the sides. It probably needs to sit in/on something soft to keep it from scratching against the vice. The pins don't hold tightly enough to keep the pig perfectly still as they deflect upon tightening the jaws.
Ideal would be some L-shaped jaws that extend up from the vice jaws and suspend the pig in space similar to the pantograph's vice. I thought about doing a box and filling with bondo or hot-melt glue and as long as the pig is squared to the box and the box is squared to the table, this might work although that solution is probably easier said than done.
If this helps with a solution, I'm all ears.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#6]
17 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#5] 18 Aug 2005
Do you have ample vertical clearance on either machine? Those banks are about 3.5"- 4" in diameter, if they're the item I'm thinking of.
The "L" brackets may be a solution, provided you have enough vertical clearance. Creating the brackets should be a simple job for a local machinist.
The "mold" idea may work, but I'd favor the "L" brackets, since they'd come in handy for a wider variety of items, i.e., S.P. boxes etc.
From: John (ICTJOHN) [#7]
17 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#1] 18 Aug 2005
Colin,
If you can get enough Hot Glue on a scrap piece of aluminum to make a good impression of the pig, it will hold very well. The hot glue has a finish that makes an object hard to slide. A deep enough impression will hold the item stable so it will not rock back and forth. If I need a deep impression, I will build a dam around the object with masking tape so I can get about 1/4" - 3/8" deep with the hot glue. Spray the object first with WD-40 and it will release out of the mold very nicely. Be careful, the glue will be hot for a short while! You will want to put the object against your top and side rails to make it easy to align for engraving.
I have tried modeling putty and silly putty, but they keep moving and thinning out which makes the object move..............
From: logojohn [#8]
17 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#5] 18 Aug 2005
I use some t slot clamps and anchor the hermes vice to the xenetech table. the bottom is pretty flat after sliding it out of the pedestal holder.
Maybe there is some other flat bottom vice at the home center or web that might work to.
The xenetech bridge will raise up over 7 inches so it won't be a problem there.
I havent done a silver pig in a long time. If I remember I put a flat surface on one end of the vice to rest the legs on to help stabilize it. then I just put a bunch of rags at the top. When the vice is tightened the rags tightened around it and stopped it from scratching the rounded top.
Here is a picture of a silver boot held in the vice from the archive.
http://www.engravingetc.org/forum/getattachment.php?webtag=EE&hash=5f8798c68fc03d9eedf6ee0e70872a24
From: UncleSteve [#9]
17 Aug 2005
To: John (ICTJOHN) [#7] 18 Aug 2005
I forgot the recipe, but there is a simple way to make your own and it is very cheap to make......
If you put the PlayDoh in a small box that will fit the pig or any other item gives you a custom form with square sides to hold it stable while engraving.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10]
18 Aug 2005
To: ALL
The mold method can be effective with thinner, relatively flat items, such as medals, but holding the stainless steel pig bank in a mold (securely) would be a dicey proposition.
Worth a try, but risky.
My opinion is based on engraving many items where a combination of a jigging and manual pressure (holding in place with fingers while engraving) has been necessary.
EDITED: 18 Aug 2005 by DGL
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#11]
18 Aug 2005
To: logojohn [#8] 18 Aug 2005
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#12]
18 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#1] 18 Aug 2005
I have a quick way of making jigs that we use regularly for screen printing odd shaped pieces.
Get a piece of plywood or aluminum scrap that you want as your foundation board...Buy a small can of bondo...Mix enough to put a pretty deep dollop on the board. Use a piece of saran wrap to cover your piece (the pig) with to protect it from the bondo, Place the mixed, soft bondo on the board in the location and depth you estimate to be appropriate, press the pig into the bondo and let cure until it is rubbery....remove before it hardens fully. Total time will be about 5-10 mins to make a very nice fitting jig for all sorts of odds and ends. The bondo will be fully cured a short time after it is rubbery, so you need to be on top of it. Bondo is very hard and should easily last the life of the project and beyond.
Good luck,
Brian Genrich
Rallye Productions Inc.
1-800-236-2036
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#13]
18 Aug 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#10] 18 Aug 2005
David,
With a deep enough mold there is no risk of rocking. Bondo is low cost, It doesn't shrink like many of the other suggested materials would, and it's hard as a rock when it is cured. The other cool thing about it is that it only takes a few mins. to know if it works well or not.
You can easily use a piece of plywood as a base with a piece of angle iron screwed into the bottom to clamp to and make it a mountable fixture.
We have used this to drag engrave medals of various types, and to screen print all kinds of different shaped pieces and it holds them like a glove.
Brian G.
EDITED: 18 Aug 2005 by RALLYGUY1
From: logojohn [#14]
18 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#11] 18 Aug 2005
Sometimes I can use it for some things without reconfiguring the whole machine with the hermes vice.
I added a block to the top to hold some thicker things.
You might be able to add a thicker block deep enough for the piggy.
Mine only opens a little over 3 inches but that might be enough.
You can use the threaded holes in the vice or tap some new ones
to screw the blocks to.
If you cant find screws long enough you may have to get a threaded rod and cut it off and secure with a nut.
The vice holding pegs in the vice are removeable if you pull hard enough with a pliers so you don't have to drill another hole in the blocks.
I have also took some thin wood pieces and cut out arcs to hold
round objects that wouldn't fit in a jig.
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#15]
18 Aug 2005
To: logojohn [#14] 18 Aug 2005
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#16]
18 Aug 2005
To: logojohn [#14] 18 Aug 2005
From: Colin (MATROPHY) [#17]
18 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#16] 18 Aug 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#18]
18 Aug 2005
To: ALL
Looks like there are numerous "Stunt Engravers" in our ranks! :-)
From: logojohn [#19]
19 Aug 2005
To: Colin (MATROPHY) [#17] 19 Aug 2005
I made a layout the size of the block with the holes drawn.
I printed it out and positioned it on the block for drilling.
The holes can be a little off and oversized and still hold the block when the vice is closed.