Full Version: DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#113]
7 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#91] 7 May 2006
Hi Harvey,
I understand not wanting to introduce vaporware. I think the forum appreciates that, but don't you think it would be a better business plan to have the new ideas up and running before asking people to pay for "future" improvements?
The biggest potential problem I see is ponying up, with the risk of little or no change to the forum.
Show us what we should be willing to pay for, and you will give people a decision to make. Tell us that "the future will be rosy" and we have nothing to base our decisions on other than faith that it will be more grand than we can imagine.
From: Button (LASERCHICK) [#114]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
I have been reading and so far have refrained from responding. I do not want to be part of any contention, if that is what some are feeling. I do have a couple of comments to make, though.
1. So far, I have been one of the "leeches". I do not have the knowledge that so many on the forum have. I hope to some day give back what I have learned here. I bought my engraver 2 1/2 years ago for one purpose only. Last year at the ARA show, I decided it was time to learn more and move on. It takes time and a lot of knowledge. I certainly appreciate all who have helped me.
2. I don't know if I will be joining the paid site, but I will certainly consider it. It seems like there are so many $10 a month here, $5 a month there and it really adds up. At this point, I will probably give it a try and see if it is worth it before I pass judgement. I had thought "why not charge $29 a year to begin with, and let us all see if it is worth our money". That would be very doable for me and I would join today. I think newcomers would join quickly at that cost, but at $99 I think it will drive most of them away. I also feel that most who are already part of it would be willing to pay that--maybe even a little more.
3. I want to personally thank David and the other Mods for all their time. I have always wondered how David L. finds time to answer as many posts as he does. Time is money and he has certainly given freely to everyone on this forum. Almost every post, David responds to. I don't know about the rest of you, but every time I am sidetracked to respond to e-mail, phone calls, etc., when they are not directly connected to my business (to bring in money for me), cost me money.
Thanks, David L., for all your time!
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by LASERCHICK
From: Semi-Accurate Engraver (LONEHAWK) [#115]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone; I'm just stating my info on the situation for whatever it's worth. I'm sure the more thoughts the Mods have from the users the better.
First thing is that one demographic has been left out of the equation. (Me being in this demographic.) That's simply those of us that do not like paying for things online. (no, i don't mean you should steal/pirate stuff! :S ) I'm just still not happy with security on the net. No matter how secure something is, someone cracks it, steals from it etc. eventually it seems. For this reason I don't buy/purchase or subscribe to things online. Only fair to say that I have made 2 exceptions that I can think of though; but the circumstances were extenuating.
Second, I joined this forum, oh, I don't know, about 2 months ago I think. I came across it by accident whilst searching for info on laser engravers before our company made our recent purchase, trying to educate myself beforehand. I have to say, what made me sign up was the "free exchange of ideas and info" philosophy. I was not around in the beginning of this forum's life so I never knew the agenda was open that it was eventually meant to be a pay for use site.
I have had a couple of questions answered and I have made my 2 cents worth input to a few. (whether I was of any help or not I don't know and am not professing.) I'm not bragging when I say this: the main reason I've stuck around is the "interest factor." Meaning, I don't come across a lot of problems I can't solve or figure out on my own with my co-workers, but I love the engraving industry/my job and just thought this was a really cool place to talk shop.
To sum up, I will not be subscribing when it goes to pay to be honest about it for the reasons above and simply, I can't afford that in my budget right now. (In Canada here.) Not that Canadians are poor , just no tax break here. :'-(
I wish David and Co. good luck. In the end only God knows whether this will work out or not. But you have to admit, you'd never know if anything would work if you didn't try it.
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#116]
7 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#56] 7 May 2006
There is? I would be interested.......
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#117]
7 May 2006
To: precisionlaser [#60] 7 May 2006
Mark,
I could not past your whole thread here, it was too large, BUT it was right on the money.
You stated many of the feelings I have and stated them well.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#118]
7 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#29] 7 May 2006
Could you give us the name of the photo site? I'd like to see what they're up to.
On the topic of copyrighted posts, for anyone who strongly objects to their archived posts being part and parcel of the pay site, I do have the ability to esponge all of their posts.
I will perform that task, to all who request to have their posts removed.
At the same time, I would ask that those people weigh their decision carefully.
Deleted posts will disrupt the continuity of an archived thread.
Putting myself in that scenario, I would allow my archived posts to stand, on whatever forum I had previously participated, without malice.
Of course, each of us is entitled to our own decisions.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#119]
7 May 2006
To: mikew [#35] 7 May 2006
I've seen the contribution drives on Sawmill Creek. From what I saw, they were sparsely met.
Why would it take such a valuable resource, to be driven to the edge of extinction, before taking measures to ensure its continuance?
If meeting operating costs is the single goal, that says to me, the administrators aren't planning to take the site beyond its current incarnation.
From: mikew [#120]
7 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#119] 7 May 2006
SMC was in a similar situation, monthly bandwidth was costing them greatly. The members stepped up and met the need.
The difference is SMC isn't looking to profit from members shared information, only to cover costs. That's what a forum is.....Shared information. You can try reinvent it with extras like cheap clipart/logos but in the end the people are there for the shared information/interaction.
As many have said, please throw us a bone.....What are the perks?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#121]
7 May 2006
To: spudislander (WILLM) [#36] 8 May 2006
Will,
Thank you for supplying the operative word -- Foresight.
It's been suggested (privately) that I lay out my long term goals, in order to show people what's in store.
There are two reasons, I keep that information close to my vest:
1) Nobody, including myself, likes "vaporware."
Vaporware, for those not familiar with the term, is an announcement of a great product, just over the horizon, which, in reality, may never materialize.
My plan will be incremental. People in the "Show Me" state will appreciate my approach.
2) I'm thinking much further out of the box, than any current awards and engraving industry entity seems to be capable of.
I'm not disparaging those companies or organizations; just making an observation, based on nearly four decades within this industry.
Therefore, revealing my long-term vision, which has been thought through and is very clear in my mind, at this time, will only serve to inspire others to imitate.
Evidence at hand, is the emergence of a "look-a-like" Beehive forum, which although not affiliated in any way to EE.org has adopted a mutation of my forum's name along with the format of carrying many processes, under one roof.
Until I initiated the Engraving Etc. forum, on Delphi forums (circa 2000 and to this day) most online forums were/are single-dimensional.
I surely don't mind if other forums are inspired to follow the leader, but I think it's up to the leader to set the bar.
That way, those who have followed our history will recognize the true originators.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#122]
7 May 2006
To: EncompassTech [#44] 8 May 2006
Cherie,
No such potentially-bias-producing offers have been made, or accepted.
Companies run discounts and specials all the time. Running a special, especially for our group, (as is being done on DSSI) isn't fuel for bias.
Thank you, once again, for making my case.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#123]
7 May 2006
To: Zonas [#45] 7 May 2006
Zona,
Do you own a dictionary?
When's the last time you used it?
When you did have occasion to use it, did you find the information you were looking for?
Was your dictionary a waste of money?
Our registered members will be made aware of the change in format, with 30 days to make their decision.
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by DGL
From: precisionlaser [#124]
7 May 2006
To: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#117] 7 May 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#125]
7 May 2006
To: EncompassTech [#47] 8 May 2006
You are saying a lurker is going pay you to come out and tell the "go getters" of the industry all of their secrets? Personally this would be the last place I would be willing share information. I would be expecting to get more information as a lurker now that I have to pay to lurk.
Cherie,
Your statement, sounds as if you possess incontrovertible evidence to the contrary.
To this day, I maintain a DelphiPlus membership. I rarely visit, but I'm happy to have their valuable product at my disposal, when needed.
I don't begrudge them charging for their service.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#126]
7 May 2006
To: Dave Jones (DAVERJ) [#48] 7 May 2006
As our Most Valuable Newcomer, I truly appreciate your input, here and across the entire forum.
If I hadn't already seen pay forums succeed, I'd be less confident about my decision.
I'm well aware of the drop of membership we'll experience. I have no expectation of how many paying members to expect, in the short term.
Jokingly, I've said, "If we end up with five paying members, we'll build from there." :-)
After all, I've started from scratch, on two occasions. The second time, was less work than the first; and if you consider the new format, the third start; I expect even less work, in building a strong membership.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#127]
7 May 2006
To: sprinter [#54] 7 May 2006
Many people choose not to enter the fray. It's not surprising you're not seeing the "where do I make my payments" emails I'm receiving privately.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#128]
7 May 2006
To: cardjim (JIMMY) [#64] Unread
Jimmy,
I'm one of the little guys. I don't think you can get smaller than a one-man operation, where wearing all the hats, is a daily occurence.
I don't call myself a "little guy" because I truly believe, that mindset is counter-productive, to becoming a bigger guy.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#129]
7 May 2006
To: sprinter [#66] 7 May 2006
I fully agree that another name should have been used, but I doubt you had much say in the choice of the name.
I suspect there's an element of sibling rivalry at play.
Is that the case? You can be honest; can't you?
You're anonymous.
From: UncleSteve [#130]
7 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#127] 7 May 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#131]
7 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#102] 7 May 2006
Rodney,
I find it interesting that you, who emphatically states, the (commercial) awards and engraving industry holds no allure and that EE.org holds virtually no value to you personally, would be at the head of the charge against the new format.
In case you hadn't seen my previous post, adressing people who feel their contributions are being hijacked, as grist for the new format, I can delete all of your posts, with a single click of a button.
I'll do so, at your command, and for those who share your sentiments.
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#132]
7 May 2006
To: Zelmon [#107] 8 May 2006
Thank you Simon.
I appreciate your perspective from "across the pond" and as a seasoned industry veteran.
My only fear for this thread, is that it will replace the "ARA Las Vegas" thread as the longest-running. :P
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by DGL
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