Full Version: DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#93]
6 May 2006
To: ALL
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#94]
6 May 2006
To: ALL
I personally think that a log should be kept of all of the members who have proclaimed their intention to move on and, more importantly, start a new forum that unoriginally mutates the name of this forum because of the price, and when they rejoin this forum because of the things they are missing out on, make them pay a penalty fee.
Talk is cheap. I understand those who feel that they will move on, but to make such issue with it and brag about how much they have contributed as if this site will totally shut down if it were not for them, and make "threats" and shameless self promotions of starting new forums with unoriginal names (which makes me wonder about the originality of their engraving abilities and ideas) makes them look like children. As David said, it is a sole proprietary; my business is my business and I will not have a supplier telling me how to run my business and likewise David should not allow any one member (or two, or three, etc.) to tell him how to run his site.
I honestly can see it now. A new forum will be started, the first two months or so will be primarily threads on how this forum sucks. By the 8th or 9th month the new free forum owner will find that there site is losing them some major capital to keep it running and within a year, the new forum will shut down, or it will advertise and start catering to suppliers, members will get ripped off by suppliers and start looking for forums that are not biased, so that within two years, many of the members will be back on this site enjoying professional advice and the owner of the new forum will be coming in under a new identity and causing sour grapes (again).
All of this is hypothetical, but to those who have the real problem with this there is some underlying reason that you are being so vocal about it. You know how the moderators feel, they know how you feel, if there is a problem then go ahead and leave and start your new forum. Those of us that believe in the importance of helping eachother out will be glad to hang out with you when you come to the conventions and brag about how much we are getting from our new controlled forum.
Though I am just starting in the engraving, I have already had an idea stolen from me. I look forward to the pay site because there will be a less likely chance of someone lurking for the purpose of building their business solely on the ideas of others (kind of like creating a forum that is copied from this one down to the name). I know that I will be more likely to share ideas and such with others that I know will use my ideas as a springboard for their own creative abilities rather than steal an exact idea.
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#95]
6 May 2006
To: sprinter [#75] 7 May 2006
From: gt350ed [#96]
6 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#91] 6 May 2006
Harvey, I'm hoping that although you replied to my post, you were editorializing for the benefit of ALL, since I have not stated or even inferred anything regarding feelings of being "ripped off".
I'm going to bed now, and when I say my prayers tonight, I am going to pray that everyone will do their best to move back to the center. There IS a way to preserve this "community" such that everyone gets a bit of what they want. Why don't we meet in a community "forum" to discuss it? What a concept.
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#97]
6 May 2006
To: gt350ed [#96] 6 May 2006
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#98]
6 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#92] 6 May 2006
These are generic logos. Some I paid to have made, (the real early ones, and owned by me), others were representations of things from the public domain that were digitized by me. None were from other sources.
To the absolute best of my knowledge copyright can be claimed only by me. I grant full usage with no strings to members for their own use.
I do not grant usage for resale of the logos for use by anyone but the members and their companies.
We will need to put up a blurb stating this with the logos.
Thanks, really good question.
From: gt350ed [#99]
6 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#95] 6 May 2006
In reading YOUR comments, I'm left wondering if you and I are reading the same posts from members. We certainly are not interpreting them the same way.
As a for instance, I never felt that ANYONE was "bragging" about their contributions. They were just stating fact. And the fact is that this forum has worked because of the generosity of shared wisdom and experience of many. Like you, I too have benefited greatly from this forum. But the benefits have been as much from members as from Moderators; maybe even more so.
To David L. or anyone to infer that "we value the contributions you make, and we want you to continue to do so while we charge folks for the privilige of accessing your wisdom and experience" is a bit hard to swallow. Consequently, they (we) are simply stating FACT.
And, also, just a suggestion.....
Although you certainly are entitled to your opinion, you might want to reconsider thoughts of dolling out "penalties". That kind of smacks of censorship or devisiveness and could come back to haunt you.
Our family is just having a difference of opinion. And we're sitting around the dinner table discussing it. Capish?
From: gt350ed [#100]
6 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#97] 7 May 2006
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#101]
6 May 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#91] 7 May 2006
You are telling us to ante up when we have no idea of what we're anteing up for cos you arent gonna announce vapourware - what do you think a $99 a year forum without any indication of what one is going to get is? Vapourware to the extreme.!!!! Why did you guys even open your mouths about it in the first place?
You guys are winging it as you go cos your pie in the sky idea is being shot down in flames.
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#102]
6 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#93] 6 May 2006
Franklin , there are info leechers and info givers - do you honestly think that the givers are worried about not getting a share of the pie - when that info was given not one of them expected payment!!!
What the givers dont like is the fact that the info was submitted in the spirit of sharing and is now being used for commercial gain. Whether you qualify a remark with a smarmy tongue in cheek comment is irrelevant , you made it - now stand by it , tell us who in your opinion is unhappy about not getting a few paltry $ for their contributions.
IMHO you are a leecher - what exactly have you contributed here - sheesh - talk about living in cloud cuckoo land.
EDITED: 6 May 2006 by RODNEY_GOLD
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#103]
6 May 2006
To: gt350ed [#99] 7 May 2006
The comments about penalties was another tongue in cheek comment. I guess I need to remember that comment I find to be humorous are not always taken as such by others. If you knew me and the volunteer work that I do in political circles, you would have no doubt in your mind about my opinions on censorship. One thing I like about this forum is our ability to speak our minds.
As for the three in a row. I was reading up on this particular thread and as one struck a nerve, I responded to it. I guess no one wrote anything between the times that I posted, so they all showed up together like that. Kind of shocked me as well.
Now, not to hash over old posts, but if you would like I could go back and give cut and paste quotes from two individuals in particular who not only were speaking their minds, but doing it in a way that could be seen by quite a few in this forum as plain arrogant and rude. My posts were not blatant comments about people in here who have a problem with the changes, but to those in particular who were making free plugs for new web forums without asking permission to do so. A new group started is fine, but to do it solely out of spite is another. There were also a few comments made that gave the impression (at least by one person) that this forum would really suffer if they were not around to give their two cents worth. This entire forum is a place of learning and sharing for all of us. No one person in here is going to make or break this forum (except for David if he just gets tired of all the drama and shuts it down- of Course).
And in the area of launching my business. I have a degree in visual communications, I have worked in the signs industry for years and have been on my own for years. The engraving part of the business is new. I know business, I also know professionalism and the way A FEW of the posts were made wasn't (to borrow your analogy)a family sitting around the dinner table, but rather a family sitting around a dinner table with one member of the family over in the corner throwing a fit because he/she has to eat what is served them (i.e. a free site moving to a paid site by the guy who created the site).
By all means, lets discuss, but lets also do it professionally. Knowing that the site is going to go this direction and that if it is that much of an issue, we have the right to go to one of the other sites or start one ourselves. David has my full support on this move.
From: Myyk [#104]
6 May 2006
To: ALL
Well, I also will have to evaluate whether the forum is worth that much to me. By the the time us "foreigners" do the currency conversions, it's not an inconsequential amount.
I have enjoyed being part of this community with our shared interest, but with some of the most impressive contributors bowing out, what is left?
From: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#105]
6 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#102] 6 May 2006
As you may read in the prior post and if you wish to go back in to previous threads, I don't know much about engraving, it is new to me, however I do know graphic design, I do know signage, I do know most of the programs used. I know website development, I know business formation and professionalism, and I know that there has been a few times that my knowledge on something has come into play and I was able to give some advice.
Its like this, I have been on this site for about half a year now and have personally gotten nothing of use from you. That is not to say that you do not have a lot of incite and knowledge in your field.
The issue I am addressing you just pointed out in your post to me. It only took you three paragraphs before you referred to me as a leecher and referenced that I must be in cuckoo land. A professional would have been a little more distingue with the comments and would not have resorted to blatant name calling.
By all means go to the free site, give out your free advice, and whine about how others are making money off of your ideas while giving no credit to anyone who may have given you a nugget of truth, help, or creativity along the way.
Sorry that you feel that you can blast anyone in this forum as abruptly as you do, but get offended if the same is reflected back at you, but sometimes professionalism has to come into play. Though I take offense at the personal "leech" comment, I will choose the hire, more professional road and won't continue on this path that you seem to want to take this thread.
From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#106]
6 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#105] 7 May 2006
You indicated on 21 april:
Since this issue was brought up, I guess I must specify that technically I am doing most of the actual engraving work, but I feel justified in putting my wife as a majority owner because she is the one that has invested time in helping get this started and she is also the primary bread winner in the family until our business gets off the ground.
How does the gel with the statement you just made that :
"I have worked in the signs industry for years and have been on my own for years. The engraving part of the business is new. I know business, I also know professionalism"
If that is the case , bearing in mind your statement in april of this year , it appears that whatever business you were in for years either folded or made no money or is not a contributor to family income? What exactly were you doing for years on your own?
Where does all that business acumen and professionalism come from and how was it applied to make your venture successful?
Looking at your posting record from the beginning of time indicates your first post was in jan this year , the majority of posts you make in terms of real contribution (and not political) were and are requests for info. What was your posting handle in the year prior to that so I can fully see your record of your 1.5 years here?
Should you wish to cast aspertions on others , you would do well to look to yourself first.
From: Zelmon [#107]
7 May 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) 7 May 2006
Blimey, what a hot topic, 100 plus threads overnight. I am reasonably new to the forum, but have had 20 years as an engraver. In spite of this experience I have learnt a lot, I try to reciprocate and offer advice where I think it is topical or relavant. I think the suggested fee is small petty cash for vitually everyone who joins in.
So the people who object are being a bit petty and small minded. It has a hint of 'I'll scan the forums and pick up tips but I am not giving any of my trade secrets away'!!
I attend ARA shows and am staggered by the candid and helpful approach of Americans, British business people (in my personal opinion I hasten to add) are a lot more secretive
A brave decision Dave, so I hope it works out.
My final comment....there's no such thing as a free lunch !!!
Simon Cork
Sheffield UK
From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS) [#108]
7 May 2006
To: Franklin (FW_HAYNES) [#103] 7 May 2006
Franlin,
I think your first order of business should be to keep your tongue out of your cheek. It obviously warps your judgement.
From: JHayes55 [#109]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
I respectfully request that everyone refrain from name calling and personal attacks.
I am not sure that anyone has really meant to do this but it is starting to sound that way in some posts.
No need to be disagreeable just because there is disagreement.
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#110]
7 May 2006
To: gt350ed [#96] 7 May 2006
Wish ya luck David...don't believe it will work...but good luck!
Doug
EDITED: 7 May 2006 by JDOUG5170
From: MR C (MOSHE) [#111]
7 May 2006
To: ALL
Hey, I also like free like everybody else.
But why complain when it comes the time to pay the piper?
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#112]
7 May 2006
To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD) [#106] 7 May 2006
I reread his post just to be sure. He said one half a year.
Also your post is getting awfully close to a personal attack. Please be more careful about that. Personal attacks are one of the few things NOT allowed.
All opinions are welcome, but not attacks.
On a totally different subject. We had a thread asking for things that people would like to see here. I thank all for their suggestions. It certainly helped us think and come up with some more.
Show messages: 1-12 … 33-52 53-72 73-92 93-112 113-132 133-152 153-172 … 213-220