Full Version: New Book by Stephen Spence/2005 Conviction
From: JHayes55 [#18]
23 Aug 2006
To: ALL
Steve was in LV at the ARA show last year. He did not have a group of followers trailing him around as he did in the past. Personally I found him to be somewhat narrow minded in many subjects long before he became a convicted man. He spoke out against vector beds and air assist on lasers saying that both were just useless add on items for laser companies to sell.
Then he someone gave him an after market laser bed to test. suddenly the became a believer!! Then he caught his own laser on fire during a vector cut - someone gave him a new laser with air assist to use - guess what air assist became the next thing that he touted as better than slice bread - all the while those of us who used them knew that he was full of _______ hot air! This is all recorded in his early teachings and then recanted in his writings in one or more trade journals.
As far as his conviction - 51 days a 5 years for sex crime against children - shows how far our society has lowered itself. 51 whippings a day for 5 years is not enough. I am not sure that I have ever posted anything about how I feel about this before but I think he needs to crawl back under his rock. By the way did you know he was an ex-minister!
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#19]
23 Aug 2006
To: JHayes55 [#18] 23 Aug 2006
It is quite obvious how many on this forum feel about him. Past threads prove that, and so does this one.
He was NOT invited to join this forum and will never receive an invitation. If I put up a poll asking if he should be invited, it would probably be the most answered poll in the history of the forum, and probably the most lopsided.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#20]
23 Aug 2006
To: JHayes55 [#18] 23 Aug 2006
EDITED: 23 Aug 2006 by DATAKES
From: Dee (DEENA-ONLY) [#21]
23 Aug 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#20] 23 Aug 2006
Why I don't want to know Stephen Spence
Dee
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22]
23 Aug 2006
To: bobkat [#13] 23 Aug 2006
Bobkat,
I'm not condemning or praising Stephen Spence and I have no control over those who align themselves with Stephen.
I'm not one of them.
I merely announced the release of the book and said there are probably some very good tips in the book. I think that's a fair enough statement.
My position is, by the laws of our land, no matter how inadequate or unjust they can sometimes be, Stephen's done his time and is entitled to make a living.
I seriously doubt the people who claim to be utterly outraged, are angered to the point where they'd be proactive enough to take their case to the top of the food chain.
Ultimately, I'd call that a laid back position on their part.
EDITED: 24 Aug 2006 by DGL
From: UCONN Dave & Lynn too (DANDL48) [#23]
23 Aug 2006
To: JHayes55 [#18] 23 Aug 2006
You said it all for me. Thanks
Dave
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#24]
23 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22] 24 Aug 2006
Thanks,
Brian Genrich
Rallye Productions Inc.
1-800-236-2036 x112
Custom cut, or sheet stock Sublimatable metal,
Screen printing, and other digital print services.
EDITED: 23 Aug 2006 by RALLYGUY1
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#25]
24 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22] 24 Aug 2006
Based on your suggestion/challenge to take it to the top of the food chain, I invited Mike Neer to view this thread and add any comments on his opinion based on the information I sent him in the link to the West Virginia Sex Offender Registry regarding J. Stephen Spence.
My hope is that he will reply here. If not, I mentioned in my e-mail to him that I would be happy to report his opinion back to the forum.
Every person that I know that ever dealt with Mike Neer has had good things to say about the man. I can only expect that he will do what is appropriate based on what he see's here.
I don't care what job the man (Stephen Spence) has elswhere as he moves on with his life, I just don't think it's appropriate to have him representing "our" industry any longer.
From: JHayes55 [#26]
24 Aug 2006
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#20] 24 Aug 2006
David - I am not good with titles so - not much help from me there. I am not too sure how off topic we are. My post simply started off to say that even if Steve's sick-o behavior had not come to light, I had lost all faith in his teaching some time ago. To be exact over 5 years ago at a show, sponsored by what was then Mike Neer's trade mag. called PPI (it think) in Kansas City - I went to two seminars by Steve and one panel discussion he was a part of. It was at that time I observed that he was very closed minded and if you did not agree with the way he thought he would put you down - as he did several people in the audience during his seminars. To then see him within a few months publish articles - praising the exact products that he put down (and put you down if you used them) - put him into perspective. He may have a ton of knowledge but - I will get mine somewhere else. There are several people on this forum who could do a 100x better job of producing well written, insightful and knowledge based articles (I am sure as heck not one). But mostly those people would be open minded enough not slam something before they had knowledge of it.
I know and respect Mike Neer, he has never done anything but help me and help me learn more about my business. The two trade shows that I went to (Kansas City and Atlanta that he set up) were of a great assistance to me when I was still in the early stages of my business. Both trade shows offered good seminars and a good chance to meet some great suppliers. I don't agree with him about continuing to use someone like Steve - that is his choice. Same with the EJ.
I can choose not to read Steve's articles and I can choose not to buy his products - Thank the Lord I live in the USA.
I have always tried to live that if I disagree with someone - it does not mean I cannot like them or learn from them - I do not always agee with my very best friends - what I will not stand for is seeing someone put someone else down because they do not totally agee with there way of thinking. (not sure that all made sense - told you I am not a writer).
Ok I am off the soap box - too much to do - many times I stay quite on these types of discussions but this one fired me up!
David this whole thing was not pointed a you - I just got caught up in the whole thing.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#27]
24 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#25] 24 Aug 2006
You're a man of conviction and I appreciate that. Too many people claim to have a cause, but do nothing substantial to advance that cause.
I think Mike Neer was a visitor to DSSI, but to my knowledge, unless he's entered as a guest, is unaware of EE.
I guess that will be changing soon.
From: JHayes55 [#28]
24 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#25] 24 Aug 2006
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#29]
24 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#27] 24 Aug 2006
My only cause is to make people aware of the situation. At a minimum they should have a right to choose who they give their hard earned dollars, based on the facts behind those selling the goods.
SS's knowledge was never something that I regarded highly. As has been stated by others, much of his information was dated, and out of step with current technology and use. It was typicaly tightly based on the companies that paid him. I have always personally felt that better, more current cutting edge solutions were available for free, on a couple of the better forums including this one and DSSI. Most of these forums had more options for materials used, and equal or better techniques that didn't pigeonhole people through one narrow solution to a problem.
Those personal feelings, plus the facts regarding his conviction are enough for me to feel that he is not a good representative of the sublimation community/industry. Touting him as such just isn't so.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#30]
24 Aug 2006
To: JHayes55 [#28] 24 Aug 2006
I think it's pretty clear that most are in agreement on the subject. I believe that I am only following through on something that many have strong feelings about, but don't have the wearwithall to act on those feelings.
As I said in my last post, I mainly want people to be aware of who/what they are dealing with...Including the advertisors, trade magazines, and public forum's. He is not the bill of goods that they are selling, and touting him as an industry leader or good representative is just rubbish when you add his conviction to the mix.
From: PenMan [#31]
24 Aug 2006
To: JHayes55 [#26] 24 Aug 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#32]
24 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#29] 24 Aug 2006
I'm looking forward to Mike Neer's response to your email, although I doubt he'll come to the forum with a public statement.
Please keep us updated.
From: JHayes55 [#33]
24 Aug 2006
To: PenMan [#31] 25 Aug 2006
The book might be shorter than my post. Darn, I wish I had not slept through all those boring English classes in high school and college. Might have helped if I had taken a second class in typing also.
KIDS DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND STUDY YOUR LESSON BECAUSE SOMEDAY
YOU MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE TO TYPE ON A FORUM AND YOU DON'T WANT TO LOOK STUPID :P
From: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#34]
25 Aug 2006
To: ALL
From: basehorawards [#35]
30 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22] 31 Aug 2006
David,
I agree that SS is entitled to make a living and that by the laws of our land he has done his time.
My question to those who do not want him "in our industry" is: what industry should he be in? He knows (though apparently not very well) this industry. So why should he go to another unless he can not make a living in this one? If you do not buy his book then perhaps he will not make enough money to stay here and will move on to something else.
I have a lot of problems with the criminal justice system in general and with the sexual predator registry in particular. Did you know that if you are a 17 year old boy and are deceived by a 15 year old girl who tells you that she is 17 and you get caught having been intimate you have to register and are a sexual predator under the law equal to a child molester?
That said; what do we as a society want of our convicted felons? If we ban them from making an honest living I see two other choices - a dishonest living or lifelong government support.
BTW I will not be buying his book.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#36]
31 Aug 2006
To: basehorawards [#35] 31 Aug 2006
James,
I agree. Some aspects of our legal system don't make sense. The example you pointed out is downright scary.
I also agree that the market will dictate whether Stephen can make a living in this industry or not.
Although we haven't heard what Mike Neer's opinion of the situation is, I suspect, if we had, it would be along the lines of, "He's done his time."
EDITED: 31 Aug 2006 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#37]
31 Aug 2006
To: basehorawards [#35] 31 Aug 2006
Hi James,
You asked....... "what industry should he be in?"
The way I see it.....That's not my concern. I just don't feel like supporting someone like him in "our" industry.
Regarding the laws surrounding 17 year olds having sex with other minors.....that's a totaly different situation than this particular one. I may agree with you, but this situation is totaly different than that.....
We are talking about a grown man that was an ex minister, with child pornography on his computer. In addition to that there were accusations that fit the mold of a person that has this kind of material on his computer. Essentially the claims of video camera's in his business's bathrooms were what propegated the investigation....He wasn't convicted for anything regarding that, but that doesn't mean that they weren't necessarily there. At this point, no one will ever know about that portion of the situation.
I don't care what the man does with himself regarding a job, but I personaly don't want to see him propped up as an industry leader, when
A. He never was really much of an industry leader on a technical basis anyway (He was generaly behind the curve on most everything that he taught, dissed competing products publicly in comparision to what he was "selling", instead of going at it with an open mind as a real "teacher" should).
B. He has this cloud hanging over his head, and part of the punishment is the public knowledge of his crime. His time will never be served.....as these sentances are typicaly a life of embarrassment and a shunning by society. As it should be.
Call it a harsh way of dealing with him.....but that's a stigma that will follow the kind of crime he has been convicted of.
At this point, I would rather have him on welfare, and have an illegal alien teaching sublimation. ;)
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