Full Version: New Book by Stephen Spence/2005 Conviction
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#30]
24 Aug 2006
To: JHayes55 [#28] 24 Aug 2006
I think it's pretty clear that most are in agreement on the subject. I believe that I am only following through on something that many have strong feelings about, but don't have the wearwithall to act on those feelings.
As I said in my last post, I mainly want people to be aware of who/what they are dealing with...Including the advertisors, trade magazines, and public forum's. He is not the bill of goods that they are selling, and touting him as an industry leader or good representative is just rubbish when you add his conviction to the mix.
From: PenMan [#31]
24 Aug 2006
To: JHayes55 [#26] 24 Aug 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#32]
24 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#29] 24 Aug 2006
I'm looking forward to Mike Neer's response to your email, although I doubt he'll come to the forum with a public statement.
Please keep us updated.
From: JHayes55 [#33]
24 Aug 2006
To: PenMan [#31] 25 Aug 2006
The book might be shorter than my post. Darn, I wish I had not slept through all those boring English classes in high school and college. Might have helped if I had taken a second class in typing also.
KIDS DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND STUDY YOUR LESSON BECAUSE SOMEDAY
YOU MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE TO TYPE ON A FORUM AND YOU DON'T WANT TO LOOK STUPID :P
From: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD) [#34]
25 Aug 2006
To: ALL
From: basehorawards [#35]
30 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#22] 31 Aug 2006
David,
I agree that SS is entitled to make a living and that by the laws of our land he has done his time.
My question to those who do not want him "in our industry" is: what industry should he be in? He knows (though apparently not very well) this industry. So why should he go to another unless he can not make a living in this one? If you do not buy his book then perhaps he will not make enough money to stay here and will move on to something else.
I have a lot of problems with the criminal justice system in general and with the sexual predator registry in particular. Did you know that if you are a 17 year old boy and are deceived by a 15 year old girl who tells you that she is 17 and you get caught having been intimate you have to register and are a sexual predator under the law equal to a child molester?
That said; what do we as a society want of our convicted felons? If we ban them from making an honest living I see two other choices - a dishonest living or lifelong government support.
BTW I will not be buying his book.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#36]
31 Aug 2006
To: basehorawards [#35] 31 Aug 2006
James,
I agree. Some aspects of our legal system don't make sense. The example you pointed out is downright scary.
I also agree that the market will dictate whether Stephen can make a living in this industry or not.
Although we haven't heard what Mike Neer's opinion of the situation is, I suspect, if we had, it would be along the lines of, "He's done his time."
EDITED: 31 Aug 2006 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#37]
31 Aug 2006
To: basehorawards [#35] 31 Aug 2006
Hi James,
You asked....... "what industry should he be in?"
The way I see it.....That's not my concern. I just don't feel like supporting someone like him in "our" industry.
Regarding the laws surrounding 17 year olds having sex with other minors.....that's a totaly different situation than this particular one. I may agree with you, but this situation is totaly different than that.....
We are talking about a grown man that was an ex minister, with child pornography on his computer. In addition to that there were accusations that fit the mold of a person that has this kind of material on his computer. Essentially the claims of video camera's in his business's bathrooms were what propegated the investigation....He wasn't convicted for anything regarding that, but that doesn't mean that they weren't necessarily there. At this point, no one will ever know about that portion of the situation.
I don't care what the man does with himself regarding a job, but I personaly don't want to see him propped up as an industry leader, when
A. He never was really much of an industry leader on a technical basis anyway (He was generaly behind the curve on most everything that he taught, dissed competing products publicly in comparision to what he was "selling", instead of going at it with an open mind as a real "teacher" should).
B. He has this cloud hanging over his head, and part of the punishment is the public knowledge of his crime. His time will never be served.....as these sentances are typicaly a life of embarrassment and a shunning by society. As it should be.
Call it a harsh way of dealing with him.....but that's a stigma that will follow the kind of crime he has been convicted of.
At this point, I would rather have him on welfare, and have an illegal alien teaching sublimation. ;)
Message 4669.38 was deleted
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#39]
31 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#36] 31 Aug 2006
Sexual offenders that have to be on "the list's" time is never done.
It's a life sentance......It never goes away. Time in jail is just the beginning of the embarrassment and shame that should go with this type of crime.
Dissmissing the crime after 51 days in jail as "time served" is just not accurate. His time is just beginning.......It's gonna be there for the rest of his life.
Thanks,
Brian Genrich
I deleted my last post, as I was unable to edit due to the editing glitches that I have had. I needed to use more accurate terms than I was using.
From: basehorawards [#40]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#37] 31 Aug 2006
Brian,
In my opinion child molesters should, at best, get life in prison without the possibility of parol on first offense. Death penalty is not too harsh for destroying a child.
My knowledge of Spence is limited to reading a couple of articles in trade publications and what I have read here. I was not overly impressed with the articles and have to wonder what the circumstances were that lead the judge to only give 51 days.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#41]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#39] 31 Aug 2006
Brian,
A life sentence (in the eyes of the public) is only as long as a person's memory or knowledge of an event.
Stephen may, or may not, be an ultimate authority, but he is willing, ready and able to research and write magazine articles.
I don't see him disappearing from the industry anytime soon.
EDITED: 31 Aug 2006 by DGL
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#42]
31 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#41] 31 Aug 2006
So in essence....you're saying that he has served his time, and what he has done shouldn't matter at this point. It will be forgotton and life will go on either way.
Dissapointangly you may be right, but I deeply disagree with that being the way it should work.
His personal history reflects on his character as a man. That history is of his own making and he has to own up to it.
Why should we be expected to dismiss this behavior, just because he served 51 days? Everyone knows that the justice system is rarely just.
This situation goes hand in hand with being responsible for one's actions....Your saying that what's done is done.....it should be all gone. I'm saying that it reflects on the character of "the man himself" and that is difficult to change. Is this a man that you want to tout as a representative of "our" community? Why? Isn't his character part of what makes him who he is to all of us? Why isn't that weighed in on? Why should we forget/ignore the crime that was committed against these children because of the 51 days he served in jail.
I have yet to hear from Mike Neer. I have to say that I am deeply dissapointed, but not surprised. I would have hoped that we could have received some sort of reply from him. After waiting one full week, I doubt there will be any. I hope I'm wrong.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#43]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#42] 31 Aug 2006
Regardless of who touts Stephen as a representative of our community, that's what he is and it would take an extremely concerted effort to change that.
I'll continue to mention industry news items, which pertain to Stephen Spence, but I'm not compelled to mention his past history with every mention.
In fact, Spence has a product review of an Accu Cutter shear in the latest EJ. I haven't taken time to read it yet, but I suspect it will come as useful information to many.
From: UncleSteve [#44]
31 Aug 2006
To: basehorawards [#35] 31 Aug 2006
Darn! There goes almost the entire congress an most Presidents!!! (devil)
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#45]
31 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#43] 31 Aug 2006
He was more of a paid speaker than anything else, funded by those that had the most to gain by what he said.
At this point, I doubt any of those suppliers have much to gain by having him represent their products....so he is taking all the "un-biased" info and chocking it into a book because he can't possibly face anyone in the industry any longer.
Speaking of industry news...Why haven't any of the magazines considered the Steve Spence situation newsworthy?
I mean the editor/Publisher of Recognition Pro is touting the guy's wares.....but has no interest in publishing simple facts about someone that is supposedly an industry "representative". According to Neer, Spence is also supposedly a contributing writer to the Engravers Journal....Apparently it's not news to them either........
Funny how the dark secrets can just get swept under the rug and forgotten.....Gee if no one says anything.....perhaps it didn't really happen........
I wasn't asking you what you thought would happen with Steve spence with my questions....I was asking you what you thought Should happen.
From: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#46]
31 Aug 2006
To: ALL
I think everyone needs to decide how they want to handle the situation. It should be a personal decision. Some people will not buy his book or attend a speaking engagement. I don't think there should be a campaign to actively get him thrown out of the industry. The consumer will decide his place in the industry. If no one attends his seminar at a trade show, he won't be invited to too many in the future. If no one buys his books, then he won't make many more. If people want to socialize with him or be a patron of his knowledge or products, then that is their choice. People have the right to interact with him as they see fit.
If he wants to have a prominent place on this forum, the members should have a voice in how that would play out. If any members do not like the response, then each person must decide how to handle this situation. Again, it's a personal choice.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#47]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#45] 31 Aug 2006
Jim (in his previous post) pretty much sums up my thoughts.
Those who want to buy Spence books or attend seminars will do so.
Those who want to go to the ends of the the Earth, to discredit Spence, will have that opportunity as well.
In reading the "25 Ways to Make Money with Sublimation" published in EJ a while back, Spence was recounting tips he had learned from talking to sublimators and people at seminars.
I imagine the other 100 ways are an extention of that process.
From: Mick [#48]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#45] 31 Aug 2006
Brian,
EE has to support Engravers Journal and their contributors. They get FREE advertising space there, remember ?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49]
31 Aug 2006
To: Mick [#48] 31 Aug 2006
Interesting theory, although patently false.
Our mission statement is to provide an unrestricted flow of information pertaining to the awards and engraving industry and its related processes.
Maybe you'd prefer restricted reporting, as in all the news that's fit to report, except if it has anything to do with Stephen Spence.
If that's the case, you have a long wait on your hands.
EDITED: 31 Aug 2006 by DGL
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