Full Version: New Book by Stephen Spence/2005 Conviction
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#43]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#42] 31 Aug 2006
Regardless of who touts Stephen as a representative of our community, that's what he is and it would take an extremely concerted effort to change that.
I'll continue to mention industry news items, which pertain to Stephen Spence, but I'm not compelled to mention his past history with every mention.
In fact, Spence has a product review of an Accu Cutter shear in the latest EJ. I haven't taken time to read it yet, but I suspect it will come as useful information to many.
From: UncleSteve [#44]
31 Aug 2006
To: basehorawards [#35] 31 Aug 2006
Darn! There goes almost the entire congress an most Presidents!!! (devil)
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#45]
31 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#43] 31 Aug 2006
He was more of a paid speaker than anything else, funded by those that had the most to gain by what he said.
At this point, I doubt any of those suppliers have much to gain by having him represent their products....so he is taking all the "un-biased" info and chocking it into a book because he can't possibly face anyone in the industry any longer.
Speaking of industry news...Why haven't any of the magazines considered the Steve Spence situation newsworthy?
I mean the editor/Publisher of Recognition Pro is touting the guy's wares.....but has no interest in publishing simple facts about someone that is supposedly an industry "representative". According to Neer, Spence is also supposedly a contributing writer to the Engravers Journal....Apparently it's not news to them either........
Funny how the dark secrets can just get swept under the rug and forgotten.....Gee if no one says anything.....perhaps it didn't really happen........
I wasn't asking you what you thought would happen with Steve spence with my questions....I was asking you what you thought Should happen.
From: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#46]
31 Aug 2006
To: ALL
I think everyone needs to decide how they want to handle the situation. It should be a personal decision. Some people will not buy his book or attend a speaking engagement. I don't think there should be a campaign to actively get him thrown out of the industry. The consumer will decide his place in the industry. If no one attends his seminar at a trade show, he won't be invited to too many in the future. If no one buys his books, then he won't make many more. If people want to socialize with him or be a patron of his knowledge or products, then that is their choice. People have the right to interact with him as they see fit.
If he wants to have a prominent place on this forum, the members should have a voice in how that would play out. If any members do not like the response, then each person must decide how to handle this situation. Again, it's a personal choice.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#47]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#45] 31 Aug 2006
Jim (in his previous post) pretty much sums up my thoughts.
Those who want to buy Spence books or attend seminars will do so.
Those who want to go to the ends of the the Earth, to discredit Spence, will have that opportunity as well.
In reading the "25 Ways to Make Money with Sublimation" published in EJ a while back, Spence was recounting tips he had learned from talking to sublimators and people at seminars.
I imagine the other 100 ways are an extention of that process.
From: Mick [#48]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#45] 31 Aug 2006
Brian,
EE has to support Engravers Journal and their contributors. They get FREE advertising space there, remember ?
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49]
31 Aug 2006
To: Mick [#48] 31 Aug 2006
Interesting theory, although patently false.
Our mission statement is to provide an unrestricted flow of information pertaining to the awards and engraving industry and its related processes.
Maybe you'd prefer restricted reporting, as in all the news that's fit to report, except if it has anything to do with Stephen Spence.
If that's the case, you have a long wait on your hands.
EDITED: 31 Aug 2006 by DGL
From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#50]
31 Aug 2006
To: Mick [#48] 31 Aug 2006
Although I think your post was very tongue-in-cheek, maybe I'll answer it in a serious manor, (maybe not).
The key word is FREE. We do not take paid advertising at all just because of possible conflicts of interest. While it would be nice for income, we will never be held back or influenced by advertisers money.
The companies that are represented in our membership are definitely appreciated, but are just members as far as the way they are handled. The forum is for the benefit of the membership and the Board of Directors cannot be pressured by money as well as other forms of undue persuasion.
We are vigilantly trying to run the forum for the benefit of our members and for no other reason. David and I have spoken for hours on this subject and with other prominent members at times, we are adamant.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#51]
31 Aug 2006
To: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#46] 31 Aug 2006
Hi Jim,
I agree with you about people making how they deal with this a personal choice, but I think people need to be informed about the facts. The reality is that the trade magazines are just going to ignore them and not report on the man that they propped up in the first place. This forum is not going to get very far in getting news to the masses about what kind of man he really is, because of it's limited membership and scope.
I honestly can understand companies that he had represented wanting to distance themselves from him. So when Mike Neer had a press release about him....I was surprised.....Then I saw a copy of that here on the forum, with no mention of his history, and had to mention it. I guess it would be nice to see that real industry "news" make it to some of the trade magazines, so people would understand the situation.
I am not suggesting any campaign against him. Just that the industry news in the trade magazines reflect reality.....not hide it from people by ignoring the obvious.
Unfortunately I think David is probably right. Most people won't remember or care long enough to make much of a difference. The industry trade magazines won't do anything because he advertises with them, and they sell his book through their website (I wouldn't be surprised if they published his book as well)....Why cut off a source of income if you don't have to....
My problem is that I always had a difficult time respecting what he brought to the table prior to any of his problems, the conviction just made me mad enough to express myself about him.
From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#52]
31 Aug 2006
To: Mick [#48] 31 Aug 2006
Yeah, that's true Mick...........You might be on to something...........
And like my friend David, I always love a juicy conspiracy theory. ;)
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#53]
31 Aug 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49] 31 Aug 2006
What, you would be any differant than the magazines that you support?
Come on David, a HoseBag is a HoseBag!
Sexual crimes are not acceptable behavior in America, and sexual preditors are not either.
The differeance as I see it here, is you acknowledge the Steven has a jaded past, the magazines are not! Ignorance is bliss!
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#54]
31 Aug 2006
To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY) [#50] 1 Sep 2006
Harvey...you are missing Mick's point I believe.
It is not that David is charging for the magazine to post their banner, (Yet), as much as it is a case as David is accepting free space in THEIR magazine to promote the forum!
Doug
New found freedom to speak ones mind is a wonderful thing!
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#55]
31 Aug 2006
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#53] 31 Aug 2006
Doug,
We definitely agree; and information is information.
We're reporting both ends of the spectrum.
From: Upacreek [#56]
31 Aug 2006
To: ALL
If everyone is to stop watching his videos, reading his articles and literature, exactly WHO will people turn to in order to gain this information?
Until there is someone willing to step up and write articles, create training videos that newbies and not-so-newbies can easily purchase and refer to, I don't see an end to his sales.
Michel
From: Goodvol (JIMGOOD) [#57]
31 Aug 2006
To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1) [#51] 31 Aug 2006
Hey Brian,
You do bring up a good point. For people to make up their mind, they need the information! I truly don't know the best "forum" (pun unintended!) to pass along the information.
For me I would like to know the information simply to protect myself and my family. Just as child molestors must register and this information is available on-line, I'd like to know that type of information about people that I might come in contact with in any type of public activity. If he wanted to play Santa Claus at a trade show activity I can promise you my kids won't be sitting on his lap!
Truthfully, I don't know how I would treat it if Spence had information that would benefit me in my business. If there was another source, I would definitely go that route. If it was a book or article, I would probably buy it if I needed it. Under the circumstances, it would need to be something I really needed.
I respect the opinion of others. For those who vehemently oppose anything to do with Spence, I respect that. I see it as neither wrong or right. For those who have forgiven him or show no ill will, I respect that, too. Like I said before, it is a personal choice.
Make no mistake that child pornography or child molestation is a dispicable crime and the thought of my kids being in that situation angers me to the point that it scares me what I might do. I don't know what I would do if faced with that situation. At the end of the day I may have my own jail cell so I don't want to minimize the charges against Mr. Spence. As a person and someone working on getting into the business, I don't know the best way to handle this situation. I just think the answer is different for each person.
From: Mick [#58]
31 Aug 2006
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#54] 31 Aug 2006
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#59]
1 Sep 2006
To: Mick [#58] 1 Sep 2006
Mick,
Now that Doug's "got it" maybe you can answer this question:
"How does my mentioning a Stephen Spence book, for sale in Recognition Pro; a magazine that carries no EE advertising (or vice-versa); translate to EE being obligated to promote or support EJ?
I regularly peruse a variety of trade magazines and post information that I think our members may find of interest.
This thread (soon to exceed 60 posts) is evidently, a topic of interest.
EDITED: 1 Sep 2006 by DGL
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#60]
1 Sep 2006
To: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#54] 1 Sep 2006
Doug,
There's nothing newfound about it. It's just a matter of using what's always been here. :-)
From: Barbara (RGILE) [#61]
1 Sep 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#60] 1 Sep 2006
Here is my opinion like it or not. I am a newer engraver, and always looking to come here to aquire knowledge.
If and when a suggestion is giving (in good faith) I can either pick it up, or ignore it. I do not know Stephen Spence, or his work. If I ever read anything about his work, it would have been in the EJ because I suscribe to it.
If someone has a sordid past and is trying to redeem himself and make an honest living, then I say let him do it. You cannot expect a magazine to sign the author as Stephen Spence, aka sexual predator.
I think what he and so many others out there are doing to our children is horrible and wrong. But if he is actually straight now, sorry for what he did and going in a good direction, weather you like his opinions on engraving, etc,or not then that is like me giving you some advice and you deciding not to take it. "Take it or leave it"
Now that I know his past, I would also jump in and say that I would go elsewhere for any information, but if I didn't know his past, I might have read his articles and get what I could out of them. (I still might if I see one)
When Dave said there was a good book out there that he wrote, he was just passing information (not judgement) and you could have taken it or left it. I too would choose to leave it, but some might not.
Realizing that the man has to live. He is also entitled to go into the industry he chooses, and unfortunately it was ours.
If and when I read anything from him, it would not effect me or my grandchildren, unless I ever came in contact with him, and that isn't likely. So let's get back to learning, and getting along.
These things start getting beaten to death, and there is so much more to talk about than someone like that.
It is giving him notariety without us even knowing.
Put it to rest, and don't read his work, or buy the book and learn what you need to know without looking at other things.
Just my opinions, but I had to write them down. It's a catch 22 situation that rots, but that's just the way it is today, and we need to breathe.
Barb
From: Doug (JDOUG5170) [#62]
1 Sep 2006
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#60] 1 Sep 2006
David, to fully understand the statement for, as Paul Harvey says, "The rest of the story".
Information soon to be revealed!
Doug
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