Full Version: Ad Specialties
From: gpvikings [#44]
28 Feb 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#43] 28 Feb 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#45]
28 Feb 2005
To: gpvikings [#44] Unread
Stories of R.S. Owens "torpedoing" their wholesale customers, while cultivating retail relationships are in no short supply.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#46]
28 Feb 2005
To: gpvikings [#44] Unread
From: LaZerDude (C_BURKE) [#47]
28 Feb 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#46] 28 Feb 2005
David,
I heard your RS Owens catalog hit the trash can all the way from Maui.
Chuck
Nameless Awards Inc.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#48]
28 Feb 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#46] 28 Feb 2005
David,
Don't throw it away. It makes a great "idea" book.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49]
28 Feb 2005
To: UncleSteve [#40] 28 Feb 2005
Steve,
The practice of large companies suing online newsgroups isn't a new phenomena.
Fortunately, a legal precedent has been set, in the form of a SLAPP law/ruling. <shrug>
The judge ruled the newsgroups were merely exercising their freedom of speech/expression. Furthermore, the judge found the sarcastic comments, contained within the threads, to be rather humorous.
We're not in Kansas anymore, and Guttenburgh himself, (the father of print media), would be proud to see so many of our modern converations being carried out in print :-)
Wouldn't you say?
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
EDITED: 28 Feb 2005 by DGL
From: UncleSteve [#50]
28 Feb 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#49] 28 Feb 2005
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#51]
28 Feb 2005
To: UncleSteve [#50] 28 Feb 2005
Steve,
That suit looked like it was filed back in March of 2004. If you know, in what stage is the trial in right now?
From: UncleSteve [#52]
28 Feb 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#51] 28 Feb 2005
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#53]
28 Feb 2005
To: UncleSteve [#50] 28 Feb 2005
Steve,
I read that tidbit in the morning paper a while back.
The paper I read, The Ventura County Star, may be able to point us to the source of the information. I'll check into that.
I understand the group in question is a closed forum, but maybe some of the people, not involved in the litigation, could come here and fill us in on the "trials" and tribulations.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#54]
28 Feb 2005
To: UncleSteve [#52] 28 Feb 2005
Steve,
Is there a legal fund for that group of people, that could be contributed to?
If so, I'm in.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: UncleSteve [#55]
28 Feb 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#54] 28 Feb 2005
Yes, there is a legal fund set up. I don't know how they would react to an "outsider" but David Takes is now a member and he can ask for you.
As you can understand, they are very touchy about discussing the law suit since it is still in progress.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#56]
28 Feb 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#55] 28 Feb 2005
David,
Being new to the group, I'm not ready to jump on that one yet. I will ask the moderator privately about the legal fund.
I think this case is more complicated than your typical vendor-bashing lawsuit. I think Norwood stands a real good chance of collecting damages on this one.
EDITED: 28 Feb 2005 by DATAKES
From: UncleSteve [#57]
28 Feb 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#56] 28 Feb 2005
This case IS a bit more comples than just bashing.... The crux from what I have read over the months is that Norwood has been accused of competing with their distributors... ie, direct to end users. The group was discussing whether anyone should do business with a supplier that competes and sells to the end users.
The most vocal saying that such suppliers should be avoided. Then Norwood claimed, after being named as selling direct, that a boycott was being organized to put them out of business.
Norwood claims they do NOT sell direct and the members in the lawsuit cited Norwood owned companies that do sell direct. I guess Norwood is counting on the fact that owning a company is not the same as being a company.....
I don't really know what the truth is but then the lawsuit started.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#58]
28 Feb 2005
To: UncleSteve [#57] 1 Mar 2005
Steve,
This will no doubt a defining moment for their forum. Naturally, I'm interested in the outcome, because our industry faces similar issues.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#59]
28 Feb 2005
To: UncleSteve [#57] 1 Mar 2005
Steve,
If Norwood is selling to an the end user, that is certainly not illegal, and organizing a formal boycott on those grounds would be problematic in my opinion.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#60]
28 Feb 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#59] 1 Mar 2005
David,
Do personal opinions, stating what a person would personally decide, for the good of their business, or conscience, constitute organizing a boycott?
If so, it could be said that by my deciding to attend the ARA show as a paying non-member, until such time as an "Ethics Committee" (with teeth) is formed, would be organizing a boycott.
That's my personal decision. The fact that my decision is read by hundreds of people, doesn't make it an appeal to boycott.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
From: UncleSteve [#61]
1 Mar 2005
To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#59] 1 Mar 2005
While it may not be illegal, it borders on "fraud" since the company insists (in its law suit and to the distributors) that it does NOT sell to end users.
This is a key to the promo industry. The suppliers have all the customer information including their logos and it is too easy to casually send out a mailing featuring a "monthly special" without referring them to their original distributor.
I differentiate between blank and imprinted goods suppliers since the customer would still have to find someone to do the personalization or do it themselves.
The game is "what is an end user" and who is a distributor. If the order is large enough, a college could be a distributor since they buy many different items even though they have no company in the business... just a purchsing department and they don't do outside jobs, just for the school.
From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES) [#62]
1 Mar 2005
To: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#60] 1 Mar 2005
David,
I don't think the issue is in the words one selects to convey their opinion. I think it may even be safe to explain how one would react to whatever their opinion and experience has been with a given vendor. But as soon as you begin to rally the masses for a boycott, that is when things get a little cloudy. Finding a line drawn in the sand is very difficult on some issues, even after legal interpretations are made.
From: Stunt Engraver (DGL) [#63]
1 Mar 2005
To: UncleSteve [#61] 1 Mar 2005
Steve,
The ASI industry isn't highly regulated at all.
I've only dabbled in the industry, but I can tell you, the times I've approached ASI suppliers for a product, I'm asked if I'm an ASI member.
I'm not.
Here's my ASI number:
Whatever the dollar amount of the purchase.
Flash the cash, and you'd be surprised by how quickly protocol, by laws and regulations fall by the wayside.
When dealing with ASI supliers, I've never found myself SOL.
David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri
DGL Engraving
Port Hueneme, CA
Show messages: 1-3 4-23 24-43 44-63 64-83 84-101