DSSI Engraving Folder / EE Announcement

From:	JimK (JUSTTHE4OFUS)	8 May 2006
To:	ALL	149 of 220

3725.149 In reply to 3725.147
Well, I took the weekend off from EE and what do I get? 144 posts in one thread to read. I have a lot of thoughts and some I will keep to myself regarding some posters and their sense of self-importance. In the time I have belonged to this forum, I have received many times more return than I ever have had from any other source, any other source. David, David, and Harvey and others have been extremely instrumental in improving my business and influencing my direction. Others have not because they forget that some of us are small, do not have the in-house resources or vast experience they have, and only tell us what they do, not what we can do to address the issue. In other words, some are helpful, some are not. I am very happy with those staying and those going. Is this forum worth $99? Not to all of us, but to me it definitely is!!!!!!!!! I am willing to wait and listen, as they have asked us to, and not debate things too early. If the new sunscription-based forum has true value added, it will be worth far more than the fee, I am willing to gamble on these guys. I pay far more for a service on Corel-only issues than I will for this. As far as magazines go, once they assume their position in the stack, they are useless down the road when I need an answer. This forum will provide information, and advice on demand, from multiple sources and allow me to make an informed decision. No magazine can do that! The ability to search for information, WHEN I need it, is extremely valuable. Also the ability to share an idea, get feedback, make changes, adjust pricing, find new markets, etc. has no pricetag, it is priceless! To those who leave, good bye and good luck. I'm staying with those that got me this far. Thanks! JimK Jim Kenndy, Sr. Just the 4 of Us Engraving York, Maine

From:	RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)	8 May 2006
To:	Franklin (FW_HAYNES)	150 of 220

3725.150 In reply to 3725.146
Hi Franklin, Interesting life story.........I'm glad you got your feet under you and that you seem to be doing well for yourself now. That story could be seen as motivational to someone that is having trouble with getting on in life.....I wish you the best as you continue to grow your business and move forward.... The difference in your example of a phone company and what has happened over the last week could be likened to a brand new phone company being hatched in less than 3 days. With the much of the same services available in the next few weeks at no cost......I'm not sure if this clarifies what the supposed costs and effort it is to run this forum are or not, as I am not sure what type of programming modifications have been necessary, but I was shocked at the speed and seeming ease of Sprinter setting up a forum that had the same usability as this one in such short order. Either he is exceptionaly proficient, or it's just not that difficult. I have no idea which it is for sure (but I know it wouldn't be easy for me). I think that there can be a place for each forum. No one should feel hostage to this forum, or angry over a second one....The people that move to the other forum wouldn't have paid anyway....The ones that stay here, probably have more personal reasons for staying.....Either relationships, or that they feel it in their gut to give back to David and the others for giving them this forum. My personal feeling is that the "pay forum" should be an exceptional enough idea that the management of this forum shouldn't feel threatened by any "free forum" (similar name or not). David's mantra has been that "Pay is the way". It's time to see if his theory is going to pull through for him. He has been willing to dismiss a good portion of the membership because he knew that a percentage wouldn't go pay.....This is something that was discussed numerous times in the past. I see no need to attack either forum. Thanks, Brian Genrich Rallye Productions Inc. 1-800-236-2036 x112 Custom cut, or sheet stock Sublimatable metal, Screen printing, and other digital print services.

From:	spudislander (WILLM)	8 May 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	151 of 220

3725.151 In reply to 3725.148
David, I have had several occassions to meet you, Robyn and your daughter. We have been fortunate to break bread, sip a few beverages, share some laughs and exchange stories. I like you and your family. Now get your head out of your posterior. 140 post to better explain your vision and you haven't. What you have accomplished is. Created competition Divided one of the best behaved and professional forums I have ever visited Driven off many contributors including Rodney. BTW what purpose did you hope to accomplish with your last post attacking his writing skills and revealing what should have remained a private dealing to everybody?? I think it came across in poor taste. Reduced much of the value of the forum that YOU hope to profit from. How can any sane business man ask people to send him money on the promise that he'll make it worth it by providing you something of value somewhere, sometime in the future. Send me $100 and I promise I'll provide you some valuable product - eventually You have become blinded by your own vision. There have been many excellent suggestions made by numerous well thought out contributors. Besides providing the meeting place, what value have you personally provided to this forum that you think is worth a collective $100 per member? I asked the question several times and I'll ask it for my last time- WHY? should I pay you anything. If you finally decide to answer this question, I think you'll alleviate mcuh of the controversy and polarization that you have created with your get money first - tell you what you're going to get later approach. Will

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	8 May 2006
To:	Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)	152 of 220

3725.152 In reply to 3725.147
I will only respond to a few of your points to try to clear up my understanding. quote: 5) I have NEVER asked that my contributions be deleted , but in the light of the fact that they will be used to draw customers to personally enrich David or others and his willingness to use the delete button , I would object to them being used when and if this forum officially becomes a pay to view entity. I gave them in the light of people helping people , and would suggest those wishing to utilise them to DL and save em before david pushes his magic delete button. It makes no difference to ME whether they are deleted here , I'm not that attached to em. Even in a free to view area , they are still an inducement in terms of a membership drive and it's not acceptable that they are used that way. No argument either way, but I do not understand the answer. Do you, or do you not, want your posts deleted when we go subscription? We would love to leave them, but will bow to your wishes. quote: 6) As to being snarky , well I really dont need an utter newbie to tell me I'm eating sour grapes etc, but I will admit , the better way for me to have handled it would have been to ignore it. Thats what I'm doing forthwith. Newbie or oldie, the important thing is 'member'. quote: 7) At no point were the members who have made this site what it is , consulted as to potential changes. This nonsense that it was always intended to be a site that made a profit for the owner was never clearly stated. We all realised at some stage that expenses in hosting needed to be recovered , but not this. worse than this is that now objections are being raised , they are not even being considered or taken heed of. Over the past year there were two nearly identical threads as this one asking for opinions. All opinions were listened to and discussed, guess you missed them. quote: The issue right now has become a case of whether I really want to be part of something run by a dictator who unilaterally takes actions ... Every company is run by a board of directors that ends up being a dictator. If not it would fall apart by everyone going in different directions. In small companies the dictator is the owner if he is smart. quote: What is really disturbing is that David and co have found the need to make this site "pay" , had this been a drive to recover some out of pocket expenses for running it is one thing , this is not - it is an attempt to milk the goodwill of others for personal gain and flies in the face of all the noble altruistic sentiments that he professes to have. I guess you have decided what is happening through your own personal filters and will not allow other opinions to interfere. It would really be nice if we could line our pockets with this. But that is not the intent. Oops, that will not get through the filter. quote: I actually no longer wish to participate here or waste time arguing the points. Only on the participating here part do we disagree. Good luck, and thanks for your past contributions. Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem) Harvey's Tips Page When you finally understand it completely... it changes.

From:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	8 May 2006
To:	spudislander (WILLM)	153 of 220

3725.153 In reply to 3725.151
quote: WHY? should I pay you anything. Short answer: You shouldn't, if my plan doesn't appeal to you. Nothing at all, wrong with competiton. It can only serve to drive the action. I'm considering the all the opinions I've read here and entertaining some "tweaks" including a cost-free "approved" forum, with a qualified moderator. Those who are bailing, are doing so of their own accord. No attack on Rodney's writing skills. Just pointing out a fact. He's quite articulate, but there's a decided difference between creating forum posts and a comprehensive, well-written article. I spent a considerable amount of time in turning his post into an article. I'm not looking to be compensated for that time, but a response to direct questions, from several emails, I think most of us would agree, would be following professional protocol. Rodney's shown his true colors in this thread, with the most offensive, calling members of this forum information leeches. I'm actively seeking to recruit all the information leeches I can attract. Of course, I'd refer to them as valuable members of EE.org David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri DGL Engraving Port Hueneme, CA

From:	spudislander (WILLM)	8 May 2006
To:	Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)	154 of 220

3725.154 In reply to 3725.147

Hi Rodney,

I think you made your points accurately and clearly.

Your posts have been the single biggest reason I tune into the forum. With your departure there is far less value for me here. I have 10+ years experience engraving and come here to leech information about other processes that you and few others bring to this forum. You have been an ispiration for me and many others I'm sure. If I were to ever travel to your part of the world, you'd be on my short list of things to see :-)

While I understand David's direction and agree with his goals of making a profit, I am in complete disagreeance with his methods and model.

As a result I will continue to leech here freely until the time comes when I can not BUT my participation will now be directed to

http://www.engravingetcfree.com

or whatever name it becomes. hope to read you there ;-)

Will

From:	EncompassTech	8 May 2006
To:	Stunt Engraver (DGL)	155 of 220

3725.155 In reply to 3725.129

since you are always talking about DSSI as your "sister" site, I must assume you are referring to me? Trying to get a new conspiracy theory going? :P

It's easy enough to check David.

You can see IP addresses on posts and using your admin utility. I have 2 static IP addresses. I have no idea if I have logged in here with one or two but most likely at some point I have used both of them (if not I would be happy to provide you with both numbers by logging out and logging back in using the other one).

Do either of my IP addresses match sprinter's?

The other way would be to look at the whois data to see who registered the site (and no, we don't go looking for someone to register sites for us).

I really have enough headaches with one site, I don't need more. People who want to may post in the Engraving Folder I setup on DSSI. Yes, it was going to be temporary but I am taking your advice and going to leave it there. I may also setup an embroidery folder since many of my users also do embroidery. No need to setup another forum, there are plenty of embroidery forums out there too. It would be just like your dye sub folder, nice to have a quick place to drop a question if needed wihtout logging into other forums.

Good luck.
Cherie

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	8 May 2006
To:	EncompassTech	156 of 220

3725.156 In reply to 3725.155

Cherie,

You finally have confused me.

If you replied to the proper post, I cannot see what you are referring to.

Do you mean we think you are sprinter? Never entered my mind. Why should you take that on in addition to your already overloaded schedule? You are doing a good job on DSSI, and do not need any more overload.

David said in another post that the engraving folder in DSSI might be temporary or may not be temporary. My opinion is that is your choice and I have no reason to look for it to be one way or the other.

Your forum gave David the courage to start this one, for that we are all very grateful. There are nothing but warm feelings toward you and DSSI. There are times I am not sure you know that. Overwork can make some short answers that can look differently than what the mean, so I always give you the benefit of the doubt. I have known you for a long time and like you as a person and as a forum Wizard. (Term of the top forum person, for the unfamiliar. On Beehive it is called the Queen Bee.)

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

Harvey's Tips Page When you finally understand it completely... it changes.

From:	EncompassTech	8 May 2006
To:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	157 of 220

3725.157 In reply to 3725.156

yes, it sounds to me like David seems to think I am sprinter... he is referring to "sibling" and he is always referring to DSSI as the "sister site"

ask him.

It sounds to other people that way too because someone else told me about that post. I came to find out what it really said.

I don't care. I know it's not me and he can think whatever he wants. He should just check things that are easily checkable before making accusations like that.

EDITED: 8 May 2006 by ENCOMPASSTECH

From:	Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)	8 May 2006
To:	EncompassTech	160 of 220

3725.160 In reply to 3725.159

And I read that as sprinter's site being a child/sibling site of EE.

I just do not see your connection, although the words might be able to be interpreted like that. I know for certain that he is not 'out to get you'.

Off tracking this discussion is a good endeavor.

Philadelphia, PA (Really Bensalem)

Harvey's Tips Page When you finally understand it completely... it changes.

From:	Semi-Accurate Engraver (LONEHAWK)	8 May 2006
To:	UncleSteve	167 of 220

3725.167 In reply to 3725.166

Wrong button, this should be "reply to ALL." :-)

Well, this thread has certainly created a lot of heat and friction among a community that was previously almost religious about courtesy. (At least from what I've observed in the short time I've been here.)

If anything, this thread has revealed so much about so much. If any good should come out of this I would hope it would be that parties on both sides could learn to open up thier minds about the other side of the coin. A closed mind just locks in the darkness. :S

If the bickering stops, and the understanding begins, then even greater opportunities for new ideas, advancement and cooperation from opposing sides could yield an even greater combined entity.

It's funny, I can see and agree with the point of all the posts except for the parts where insults and criticism are implied or plainly stated.

Though, If I'm to be understanding about that, I guess I have to understand that not everyone has the same degree of diplomatic ability. We all have positive abilities in different amounts. The trick is, to use all our positive abilities--whether diplomacy, forgiveness, understanding or even intelligence etc.-- in a good way and not let our pride sneak in negative motives for them.

It just saddens me to see a community torn in half like this. Maybe I'm wrong and people are just venting, but I'm new here and was just starting to really enjoy getting to know people and contributing and now it seems to be ending.

Just for the record, I won't be joining the "pay" site for reasons I stated previously. I don't have any hard feelings about this though toward anyone. Just a little sad because like I said, to have just discoverd this place and now to see this happening, well, it's just kind of a bummer. :'-(

=====================
Take care and God bless.

Tony K. "The Semi-Accurate Engraver"

"If Time flies when you're having fun, how does it get around when you're bored?!"

EDITED: 8 May 2006 by LONEHAWK