Doming - testing the waters. - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.21">Doming - testing the waters.</a></h1><a name="a1004_21"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.21">#21</a>]<br /> 30 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.20">#20</a>] 30 Mar 2005</p> <p>Ken,</p> <p>There's so much business out there that I don't understand when people suggest "training the competition" is a factor.</p> <p>So many components go into operating a successful business, that people should easily be able to separate themselves from the pack, even with nearby competition.</p> <p>And yes, the videotaping of a wide variety of processes, including epoxy doming procedures, will be a component of the "new" forum.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a1004_22"></a><p><b>From: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.22">#22</a>]<br /> 30 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.21">#21</a>] 30 Mar 2005</p> <p>It might not happen too often. As you've said there are so many niches to get into, competition shouldn't be a big issue. Lets say there're two people Person A and Person B. </p> <p>Person A is willing to do a little extra work. He takes a chance, finds his niche, and that allows him to get top dollar. </p> <p>Person B wants to start his own business, but isn't a real entrepreneur. He decides to compete with Person A on price. </p> <p>Yes 'A's will work together toward everyone's benefit. But how many 'B's does it take to remove the profit from large segments of the industry. </p> <p>Also, in the past a niche was 'what and where'. As more commerce goes online, 'where' disappears, only 'what' is left. Yes I know, in your niche 'where' will always be important.</p> <hr /><a name="a1004_23"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.23">#23</a>]<br /> 30 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.22">#22</a>] 30 Mar 2005</p> <p>Ken,</p> <p>Sounds like the basis for a another topic of its own.</p> <p>I may be able to launch that new discussion this evening, unless you beat me to it :-)</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a1004_24"></a><p><b>From: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.24">#24</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>Hi All<br /> I've been reading this thread with interest and thought I would share what I do. I use the "soft" UV epoxy for everthing. I find that it is much more durable than the hard, and also doesn't yellow as much. My wife has had her name badge for 2 1/2 years (one of the first that I did) and it has been dropped, stepped on, Machine washed, Tumble dried, and still looks as good as new...well almost.. It was mentioned earlier that this type of epoxy always has a tacky feel to it when cured. This is true to a point, maybe its the process that I use, but this tackyness wipes off easily with a rag leaving a smooth clear non tacky finish. I have built my own cabinet, and use two different types of UV Flourecent tube. After the Epoxy has been applied to the badge, a quick wave over with a small blowtorch gets rid of any air bubbles (these are minimal anyway, because there is no mixing) I then put it under the first set of tubes for 2 minutes. The first Tubes are UVA Tubes, the glass is clear, so it is pure UVA that is generated. It is very dangerous, and can burn your skin or damage your eyes within minutes, so I have rigged a trap door on the cabinet that is light tight and that when opened turns off the lamps. (I believe that it is the same type of UV light that is used in Hospital Autoclaves for sterilizing utensils). Anyway, these lamps cause the epoxy to form a glassy clear skin, and thats all. You could leave it under them for 1/2 an hour but the epoxy would remain liquid under the skin...After a couple of minutes under the UVA, the badge is transfered to a second cabinet that has ordinary UVC (Blacklight) Tubes. <br /> It is left under these for about 8 - 10 minutes, which sets the epoxy under the skin. A wipe with a rag removes the tackyness and it's done. I have tried just the UVC by itself, and while it will set in around 15 minutes, it doesn't have the same crystal clarity that the 2 lamp process gives. A 2Kg pot of the Epoxy costs me around $300.00AU. I charge an Extra $1.50 - $2.00 (depending on quantity) and get an average of 400 - 500 badges out of a pot. I can process around 300 badges a day quite easily. One important point in getting the setting times is the distance from the badge surface to the lamps. With the UVA tubes it is 80mm. with the UVC tubes it is between 80mm & 100mm. Also being Flourecent tubes, they do not generate alot of heat. (only really at the ends where the filaments are). </p> <p>John </p><hr /><a name="a1004_25"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.25">#25</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.24">#24</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> <p>John,</p> <p>Very informative. Thank you.</p> <p>When you say a wipe with a rag eliminates the "tacky" feel, is there anything (?) on the rag; or is it just a garden variety rag?</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a1004_26"></a><p><b>From: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.26">#26</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.9">#9</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> <p>I was doing more testing/playing (whats the difference).<br /> I tried using a photo on HP premium plus glossy photo paper. (I bought the paper a couple of years ago and never used it.)</p> <p>The printed image came out really nice. <br /> The dome came out nice, with one not so minor problem.</p> <p>The dome cured but did not adhere to the photo. I put it back in for more time, no difference. There appears to be a thin layer of "liquid" between the dome and photo. I'm not sure if its caused by the epoxy or the UV, but it appears the ink is involved. When I push down on the dome, the ink distorts. I don't know how much of the problem is the ink. the liquid appears to be clear. I tried putting some of the paper under the light by itself; it does not appear to be the paper. Guess I need to try the paper with photo, and no epoxy, to see what happens.</p> <p>Has anyone else tried doming inkjet pictures on different papers?<br /> What were your experiences?</p> <hr /><a name="a1004_27"></a><p><b>From: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.27">#27</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.25">#25</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> <p>David,<br /> Just a dry garden variety rag. More often then not it's my jeans! (Looks over shoulder to make sure wife does not see this!) :-[]<br /> Occasionally I'll get some run over the edge of the badge and seep underneath before curing and because the badge protects it from the uv it stays wet. A little Methylated Spirits on a rag cleans it off easily.</p> <p>John</p><hr /><a name="a1004_28"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.28">#28</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.27">#27</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> <p>John,</p> <p>I've experienced the semi-cured edges. Didn't know there was a "cure" for that :-) I'll try your technique next time.</p> <p>I've also heard some people use talcum powder to mitigate the "tacky" feel of flex epoxy. If the epoxy isn't fully cured, before applying, you won't like the results.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a1004_29"></a><p><b>From: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.29">#29</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.28">#28</a>] 2 Apr 2005</p> <p>David<br /> In the 2 1/2 years that I've been adding Epoxy to the badges, I don't know how many I've done but it must be around 3000 odd, all with the 2 lamp process, and I haven't had even one that has remained tacky after wiping. The Epoxy that I'm using is Clearglaze RC15. My supplier imports this from the US, so I'm guessing that at least some of the members are using this one??</p> <p>John</p><hr /><a name="a1004_30"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.30">#30</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.29">#29</a>] 4 Apr 2005</p> <p>John,</p> <p>The two-lamp process was something I hadn't heard of until you explained it. Sounds terrific!</p> <p>What about the viable area of exposure. I'm finding my curing unit ( <a href="http://www.ultradome.com">www.ultradome.com</a> ) too small an effective area for mass production. Usually limited (depending on plate size) to about 8 pieces per 20-30 minute cycle.</p> <p>Not cutting it.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p> <p>ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â </p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 2 Apr 2005 by DGL</p> <hr /><a name="a1004_31"></a><p><b>From: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.31">#31</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.24">#24</a>] 4 Apr 2005</p> <p>The distances your quoting from the item to the bulb, are they "maximum" or "recommended".</p> <p>Where is the best place to buy UVA bulbs?</p> <hr /><a name="a1004_32"></a><p><b>From: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.32">#32</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.26">#26</a>] 2 Apr 2005</p> <p>I tried doming some test keytags I made the other week using LaserMax. No problem putting the epoxy on the item. When I go to take it out, I find the epoxy had flowed into the hole. On one test piece the epoxy flowed over the edge. </p> <p>I'm going to look into the UVA mentioned in this thread. Are there any suggestions/experiences from people only using a normal black light?</p> <hr /><a name="a1004_33"></a><p><b>From: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.33">#33</a>]<br /> 4 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.30">#30</a>] 4 Apr 2005</p> <p>David,<br /> The 2 lamp process was developed by a Company here in Australia that commercially produce a cabinet that has both types of lamps combined, 3UVC Lamps and 5 UVA Lamps. I spoke to a gentleman about the unit and he told me that they had developed and refined it over several years and it has an affective curing area of 300mm x 200mm that will cure around 24 badges in 8 minutes. The unit costs $1700.00AU though and as I was testing the water, didn't want to outlay that amount.<br /> He was very helpful when I enquired about building my own cabinet and even supplied me with the tudes! He was obviously relectunt to give me the exact specifications and layout of the lamps, but he told me that the OPTIMAL distance from Badge to lamp was 80mm. Longer or shorter distances will work, but not as effectively. I do buy the Epoxy and replacement tubes from him, so I guess that makes up for a lost cabinet sale. I had some teeting problems (Mainly getting the combination of the lamps right, as each type affect the surface tension differently and also because the curing times are different I ended up with a lot of Rippled badges. A nice affect if thats what you are going for, but not real good if you are trying to get a smooth surface!) after I built the cabinet and he offered some advice, but in the end I built a second cabinet and separated the UVA & UVC Tubes. I can process around 16 badges in mine with a combined curing time of 10 - 12 minutes.</p> <p>John </p><hr /><a name="a1004_34"></a><p><b>From: JayBeeOz</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.34">#34</a>]<br /> 4 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.31">#31</a>] 4 Apr 2005</p> <p>Ken<br /> The Optimal didtance is 80mm from badge surface to lamp surface. It will work with more or less, just not as effectively.<br /> I buy my tubes from the same place as the Epoxy (See my reply to David) <br /> If your supplier doesn't do the tubes, I'm sure if you contact an electrical wholesaler, they would be able to supply them to you.</p> <p>John</p><hr /><a name="a1004_35"></a><p><b>From: Terry-Morris</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.35">#35</a>]<br /> 4 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.12">#12</a>] 5 Apr 2005</p> <p>--Any recommendations when to use rigid vs. flexible epoxy? I'm assuming its based on personal preference, with some applications lending themselves more to one or the other.</p> <p>Ken, this is simple, if the item is to be curved or flexible then you need the flexible epoxy, for everything else I recommend the rigid epoxy. Of course if you like the feel you can use the flexible on anything as well.</p> <p>--Does anything happen if its left under the light longer then necessary?</p> <p>I have tested this and left items under the UV lights for 4 hours with no problems. Theoretically you could leave it there for months before it would start to affect the dome.</p> <hr /><a name="a1004_36"></a><p><b>From: Terry-Morris</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.36">#36</a>]<br /> 4 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.13">#13</a>] 5 Apr 2005</p> <p>--Too much heat can be a problem. Not only detrimental to bulb life, but if you're doming sublimated items, especially metal, too much heat can cause the image to blur.</p> <p>*<br /> David, I have not tried laser sublimation but I have tested ink jet sublimation that was domed, placed it at a constant 200 F (50 f higher than UltraDome oven gets) and left it for 6 hours, no blurring was visible under a jewelers loop even on 8 point text. Remember that if you use metals not designed for sublimation (lacquer coated award metal) then this won't hold true.</p> <p>--is the epoxy is curing, albeit slowly, as soon as you begin to work with it.<br /> --If you work in more intense lighting, you have to "pour it on." Using the small applicator bottle (after curing) will reveal the pattern, on your domed item, in which you applied the epoxy.</p> <p>*<br /> David, if you work under incandescent lights you have an unlimited working time. I got side tracked one time in the middle of doming and forgot about it until the next day, I went back and finished where I started, the epoxy had not started to cure at all even though the curtains were open and the lights (incandescent) were on, mind you the sun was not shining on the epoxy and the windows have UV protection (All household glass stops 50% to 80% of UV rays).</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a1004_37"></a><p><b>From: Terry-Morris</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.37">#37</a>]<br /> 4 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Ken D. (KDEVORY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.26">#26</a>] 5 Apr 2005</p> <p>Ken,</p> <p>This is a common problem. It is caused by either the ink or the paper having UV inhibitors (or both). Here is a simple test to help find out. Put some epoxy on the blank paper and try to cure it, if the same thing happens then the paper cannot be used with UV epoxy. If the paper dome works fine then make a print and let it sit for at least a week and then dome. Chances are if it's the ink and you let it dry for a week it will probably work.</p> <p>Another choice if it's the ink it to try and force dry it, place it in an oven on as low a setting as it will go (or just the pilot light if it has one) and let it sit for a few hours and try it.</p> <p>Even though you can rub your finger on the printed page without it smearing does not mean the ink is dried, many inks take weeks to completely dry unless helped along and the epoxy will soak into that ink and mix with the UV inhibitors causing it to not cure.</p> <hr /><a name="a1004_38"></a><p><b>From: Terry-Morris</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.38">#38</a>]<br /> 4 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.30">#30</a>] 5 Apr 2005</p> <p>-- I'm finding my curing unit ( <a href="http://www.ultradome.com">www.ultradome.com</a> ) too small an effective area for mass production.</p> <p>David, they are stackable units.... Sounds like you need a few more ;-)</p> <hr /><a name="a1004_39"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.39">#39</a>]<br /> 4 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Terry-Morris</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.38">#38</a>] 5 Apr 2005</p> <p>Unless you use special resins that take literally seconds to cure , UV is a schlep for any sort of production. A simple doming dispenser and mixer using a much cheaper 2 part resin can do 1000's of items a day and you can just leave them to dry in racks. Even for small production a 2 part resin works perfectly , you dont need to build any UV housings etc , just load them in an old oven or keep em somewhere warm and level. You can even mix in a paper cup with a lolipop stick.We can dome and ship some of our urethanes with an hour or 2 turnaround time , and one person can do at least 500 an hour.<br /> You have no heat and partial curing problems and no hassles with UV inhibitors etc. Its just a little messier/more difficult to mix unless you have a dispenser , and of course there is a pot life to the stuff , once mixed it begins to gel.<br /> None of our flexibles dry tacky or if they are , its just the same day they cured but 12 hrs on , they are "dry"<br /> As to flexible and rigid , we only do flexible if the item has a self adhesive surface and it doesnt sit perfectly flat stuff - everything else is glass hard unless specified otherwise.</p><hr /><a name="a1004_40"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.40">#40</a>]<br /> 5 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Terry-Morris</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.38">#38</a>] 5 Apr 2005</p> <p>Terry,</p> <p>Thank you for lending your knowledge to this thread. I appreciate the help.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="EE" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="1004.41" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" class="button" value="Keep reading…" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.1">1-20</a>  21-40  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.41">41-60</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1004.61">61-69</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2025 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>