J. Stephen Spence joins EJ (unmoderated) - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.23">J. Stephen Spence joins EJ (unmoderated)</a></h1><a name="a1049_23"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.23">#23</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.22">#22</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> <p>Pete,</p> <p>It's highly unlikely Stephen will visit the forum. That would have held true, even before the allegations, that you seem to regard as fact.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a1049_24"></a><p><b>From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.24">#24</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.23">#23</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> <p>David,<br /> It is clear that some of us consider the fact that he is accused enough reason not to be even remotely associated with him until the results are in. On the other hand, it is also clear that some, like you, feel strongly that he is innocent until proven guilty and he is no threat to society unless he is convicted.</p> <p>It is unlikely that either camp is going to radically change their view. In that light, I suggest that we all drop this issue since discussing it is not likely to strengthen anyone's postion or change anyone's mind. About the only result we can expect from this point on is the generation of ill feelings over a subject that we have no control over. I could easily continue to respond to most of these posts, but my position is clear and I would accomplish very little except for personal satisfaction in stating my case.</p> <p>Why don't we just move on. John was correct when he indicated it is not a POSITIVE topic for the forum.</p> <hr /><a name="a1049_25"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.25">#25</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.24">#24</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> <p>Pete,</p> <p>Could it be that we've finally found a point on which to concur?</p> <p>I think so, and I agree with your assessment that we've all made our points, and only time and the slow-moving wheels of justice will have the final say.</p> <p>And Pete, I mean this - Thank you.</p> <p>Your conciliatory message, was the right post, at the right time.</p> <p>We have a wealth of interesting topics to discuss. Let's.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a1049_26"></a><p><b>From: Frazee1</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.26">#26</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Pete (AWARDMASTERS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.22">#22</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> I'm sorry, I failed to realize you had more information than the rest of us. I didn't know he was already convicted. In your court, I guess. As far as my community, this person HAS been convicted. HE is a sex offender. There is a very big difference. I was wrongfully accused of kicking a little kid in the "nuts". Does that make me a bad person that no one should listen to? Should I have been treated bad before being vindicated? Don't think so. For a year after the kids told the truth, that it didn't happen, I couldn't quit thinking about it. Trouble sleeping, thinking straight etc. I spent lots of money trying to prove myself as honest only to have the kids tell the truth in the end. So, let Mr. Spence have his day in court. I know it doesn't sound good of his charges but you just never know. As far as you not wanting to hear from Mr.Spence, that's your right. It will not be forced on you! We will learn from him and you will just miss out. John<hr /><a name="a1049_27"></a><p><b>From: Pete (AWARDMASTERS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.27">#27</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Frazee1</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.26">#26</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> John,<br /> Sorry to hear about your psycological problems, that probably explains your position on this. It also appears I am more selective in chosing who I am willing to "learn" from. Thanks for not forcing it on me. <hr /><a name="a1049_28"></a><p><b>From: Rallyguy</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.28">#28</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Frazee1</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.26">#26</a>] 1 Apr 2005</p> <p>You have to consider the evidence in either case....In your case it was simply your word against some kid's......In Mr Spence's case, they took a camera out of the bathroom as well as tapes that were made with the recording equipment, and he was found to have posession of child pornography. Now I look at both cases differently because of the evidence that had been gathered. Everyone has to make their own moral choice on how to deal with someone that has been charged but not yet through a trial, but I would choose based on what I thought was reasonable to believe based on the evidence that they have collected.</p> <p>Trust me, they don't charge people with things like this unless they can back it up with evidence. Law enforcement wants to be reliable and trustworthy with the public, and charging people for stuff that isn't supported by evidence is just silly for them to do, particulalry in cases like these. I am not claiming that law enforcement is perfect. There have been many times when they have made mistakes that have let bad people off, but it is far more rare when they charge someone that is entirely innocent.</p> <p>Your situation was quite different than his in my opinion. They had no supporting evidence other than his word against yours.</p> <p>Brian G.</p><hr /><a name="a1049_29"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.29">#29</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> WOW!! <hr /><a name="a1049_30"></a><p><b>From: gt350ed</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.30">#30</a>]<br /> 1 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>I agree with David, Pete and others. Points have been made. Nothing will be settled. So, lets move on.</p> <p>It would be my suggestion that we delete this thread in order to move on. Otherwise, people will keep adding posts. Which is o.k. if that's what the concensus is.</p> <hr /><a name="a1049_31"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.31">#31</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: gt350ed</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.30">#30</a>] 2 Apr 2005</p> <p>Ed,</p> <p>It's important to me that people be able to voice their opinion on this matter. I think most who may come upon this thread will see their opinion mirrored by those of previous posters and won't feel the need to duplicate what's already been said.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p> <p> </p><hr /><a name="a1049_32"></a><p><b>From: gt350ed</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.32">#32</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.31">#31</a>] 2 Apr 2005</p> 10-4, Grand (Big) Kahuna!! <hr /><a name="a1049_33"></a><p><b>From: LL (LL40)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.33">#33</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.29">#29</a>] 2 Apr 2005</p> <p>Well now...</p> <p>This ain't your ordinary Engraver's Forum!</p> <p>Spirited, well articulated exchanges of philosophies, beliefs and opinions. </p> <p>I gotta make Quark's next year. </p> <p>Keep on Keepin' on!</p> <p>LL</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a1049_34"></a><p><b>From: LaZerDude (CHUCK_BURKE)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.34">#34</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: LL (LL40)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.33">#33</a>] 3 Apr 2005</p> <p>Lloyd,<br /> Quarks was TAME compared to this thread. <br /> What I really like is that we can all share our opinions here, good bad or otherwise, then go play in the Quarks sandbox and be nice......pretty cool</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a1049_35"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.35">#35</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: LL (LL40)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.33">#33</a>] 3 Apr 2005</p> <p>LLoyd,</p> <p>I'm heading out for a little shopping trip with the family. When I get back, I think you'll find the direction I plan to take this very interesting.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a1049_36"></a><p><b>From: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.36">#36</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>I think an important point of all of this is that we can "disagree with each<br /> other without being disagreeable"</p> <p>Everyone has opinons. The important thing is to listen and if we want<br /> to disagree then do so in manner that is appropriate. </p> <p>Glad to see that we can do that here.</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a1049_37"></a><p><b>From: precisionlaser</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.37">#37</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>Yes...I second Joe's note. Let's please, please, please keep this forum focused on information, techniques, tips, advice, etc. and not let it follow another well-known forum into a degenerated state of name-calling, personal insults, complaints and paranoid ravings. This forum is heavily oriented toward good meaty information and respectful exchanges, and I for one want to see it stay that way.</p> <p>Mark</p><hr /><a name="a1049_38"></a><p><b>From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.38">#38</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>Friends,</p> <p>I am so impressed and pleased with the direction this thread has gone. I recommend we all take note of what has happened here and the message that is being sent. I, as a moderator, will do exactly that.</p> <p>I am one who feels strongly about keeping the discussions here positive, productive and factual. I am so glad to see that I am in good company.</p> <p>I do not ever want this to become a place for us to vent or make personal attacks. I have been on other forums where that tone has turned me off so much that I just don't go there much anymore. This forum is too important to me and my business to allow that to happen.</p> <p>Even in situations dealing with a vendor customer service issue, I would like to see us all just lay out the facts and allow the others to draw their own conclusions. I wouldn't consider this vendor bashing at all, just sharing an experience.</p> <p>It's all good! :-)</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 2 Apr 2005 by DATAKES</p> <hr /><a name="a1049_39"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.39">#39</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.38">#38</a>] 3 Apr 2005</p> <p>David,</p> <p>It was June 25th of last year when I first heard of this story. Even though it was industry news, albeit of the worst kind, I was tempted to post the story.</p> <p>The actual arrest took place May 17th of last year; oddly enough, just shortly after the ARA show in Vegas, where I spoke to Stephen, face-to-face, for the very first time.</p> <p>After discussing my dilemma with a few people, I decided not to post. That decision was based on the personal nature of the news.</p> <p>If the allegations had (i.e.) been based on falsifying test reports of laser equipment, or any other scenario which could directly affect a person's buying decisions, I would have posted immediately.</p> <p>Since news of the arrest broke on DSSI first, I decided to hang back, and was actually surprised it didn't become a topic here.</p> <p>My prediction is that Stephen will regain his prominence. Barring a loss of freedom.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><hr /><a name="a1049_40"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.40">#40</a>]<br /> 2 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Rallyguy</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.28">#28</a>] 3 Apr 2005</p> <p>Brian,</p> <p>You seem to be up on the facts of this story more than most. I know there was a preliminary trial, set for early January, which (reportedly) was continued to early March. The 4th, I believe.</p> <p>Any news as to if the trial actually took place?</p> <p>I've asked the same question of another DSSI/EE forum member, who was interested in the proceedings.</p> <p>No news yet.</p> <p>The public's tolerance of some crimes, over others, has always struck me as odd. I always thought murder was the highest crime a person could possibly commit.</p> <p>O.J. Simpson, a person found responsible (in civil court) for a double homicide, would probably win a popularity contest over Stephen Spence.</p> <p>Bizarre.</p> <p>David "The Stunt Engraver" Lavaneri<br /> DGL Engraving<br /> Port Hueneme, CA</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 3 Apr 2005 by DGL</p> <hr /><a name="a1049_41"></a><p><b>From: UncleSteve</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.41">#41</a>]<br /> 3 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.40">#40</a>] 3 Apr 2005</p> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">O.J. Simpson, a person found responsible (in civil court) for a double homicide, would probably win a popularity contest over Stephen Spence.</div> Yes, but would Stephen win over Michael Jackson? <hr /><a name="a1049_42"></a><p><b>From: Rallyguy</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.42">#42</a>]<br /> 3 Apr 2005<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.39">#39</a>] 3 Apr 2005</p> <p>I had a personal interest in the case because we had a similar problem with one of our employees that came up several weeks after the spence situation came up. He was suspended without pay immidiately until things could be sorted out. He ended up pleading guilty and is awaiting sentancing. He is expected to get 30 years for his offenses. He has been in jail unable to post bond so he was basicly unavailable for work the whole time (a good thing in my opinion). This was a person that I had alot of trust in and brought into the fold as our first sales person. It was quite a shock to find out what he was accused of and what he was guilty of. He denied everything until several people (kids) came out and corroborated several things. </p> <p><br /> The court system in Steve Spences area seems to work at a much slower pace than ours does. Information is difficult to find. I believe the last time I asked Tammy, she said that the court wouldn't share any new information with her. Perhaps you have to be a press member to get current information on a case. I would suggest that if you are really interested in finding out what happened, that you take the time to call either the court or the local news that broke the story to see what the progress is. There are court documents that should be available for you to see that should tell a clearer picture. They are all public record, but you need to have them mailed to you. </p> <p>The initial document would be the affidavid that they used in the initial search. It will report what was found and what was said during the arrest if anything was said at all.</p> <p>Good luck on your quest for information.</p> <p>Information on our employees situation can be found here <a href="http://www.crime-research.org/news/16.08.2004/566/">http://www.crime-research.org/news/16.08.2004/566/</a> His name is David Kanouse.</p> <p><br /> I don't know what you think of when you think of "child pornography", but it's not a sweet innocent thing that should be swept off as no big deal. Most of the pictures that these guys have are awefull. Don't put your head in the sand and think its like the soft porn industry....these kids are victims, being subjected to what some would consider a form of physical and mental torture. We're talking about sex acts against children, not bath pictures.</p> <p> </p> <p>Regarding the OJ statement.....I agree. In this day and age people that committ these crimes serve a life sentance no matter how soon they get out. As far as I am concerned they are impossible to rehabilitate. Look at the recent murders in FL recently by guys that had been released and were on sexual predator lists. It's not as simple as just sending the guy to jail....it's an addiction for them. That's why they trade the pornography and have collections. I learned an immense amount from the DA and other investigators that worked on the case against our former employee.</p> <p>ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â </p> <p>Brian G.</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 3 Apr 2005 by RALLYGUY</p> <hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="EE" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="1049.43" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" class="button" value="Keep reading…" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.1">1-2</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.3">3-22</a>  23-42  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.43">43-62</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=1049.63">63-82</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2025 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>