New Book by Stephen Spence/2005 Conviction - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.24">New Book by Stephen Spence/2005 Conviction</a></h1><a name="a4669_24"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.24">#24</a>]<br /> 23 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.22">#22</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> By taking it to the top of the food chain, do you mean having a talk with Mike Neer? Doesn't he frequent this board? I could have sworn that he had visited at one time or another. I will contact him with a link to this thread. <div class="sig"><p>Thanks,</p> <p>Brian Genrich</p> <p><br /> <b><font color="#ff0000">Rallye Productions Inc.</font></b> <br /> <b>1-800-236-2036 x112</b><br /> <i>Custom cut, or sheet stock Sublimatable metal,<br /> Screen printing, and other digital print services. </i></p> ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.ÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Albert Einstein</div><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 23 Aug 2006 by RALLYGUY1</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_25"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.25">#25</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.22">#22</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> <p>Based on your suggestion/challenge to take it to the top of the food chain, I invited Mike Neer to view this thread and add any comments on his opinion based on the information I sent him in the link to the West Virginia Sex Offender Registry regarding J. Stephen Spence.</p> <p>My hope is that he will reply here. If not, I mentioned in my e-mail to him that I would be happy to report his opinion back to the forum.</p> <p>Every person that I know that ever dealt with Mike Neer has had good things to say about the man. I can only expect that he will do what is appropriate based on what he see's here.</p> <p>I don't care what job the man (Stephen Spence) has elswhere as he moves on with his life, I just don't think it's appropriate to have him representing "our" industry any longer.</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_26"></a><p><b>From: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.26">#26</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.20">#20</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> <p>David - I am not good with titles so - not much help from me there. I am not too sure how off topic we are. My post simply started off to say that even if Steve's sick-o behavior had not come to light, I had lost all faith in his teaching some time ago. To be exact over 5 years ago at a show, sponsored by what was then Mike Neer's trade mag. called PPI (it think) in Kansas City - I went to two seminars by Steve and one panel discussion he was a part of. It was at that time I observed that he was very closed minded and if you did not agree with the way he thought he would put you down - as he did several people in the audience during his seminars. To then see him within a few months publish articles - praising the exact products that he put down (and put you down if you used them) - put him into perspective. He may have a ton of knowledge but - I will get mine somewhere else. There are several people on this forum who could do a 100x better job of producing well written, insightful and knowledge based articles (I am sure as heck not one). But mostly those people would be open minded enough not slam something before they had knowledge of it.</p> <p>I know and respect Mike Neer, he has never done anything but help me and help me learn more about my business. The two trade shows that I went to (Kansas City and Atlanta that he set up) were of a great assistance to me when I was still in the early stages of my business. Both trade shows offered good seminars and a good chance to meet some great suppliers. I don't agree with him about continuing to use someone like Steve - that is his choice. Same with the EJ.<br /> I can choose not to read Steve's articles and I can choose not to buy his products - Thank the Lord I live in the USA. <br /> I have always tried to live that if I disagree with someone - it does not mean I cannot like them or learn from them - I do not always agee with my very best friends - what I will not stand for is seeing someone put someone else down because they do not totally agee with there way of thinking. (not sure that all made sense - told you I am not a writer).</p> <p>Ok I am off the soap box - too much to do - many times I stay quite on these types of discussions but this one fired me up!</p> <p>David this whole thing was not pointed a you - I just got caught up in the whole thing.</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_27"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.27">#27</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.25">#25</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> Thank you Brian.<br /> <br /> You're a man of conviction and I appreciate that. Too many people claim to have a cause, but do nothing substantial to advance that cause.<br /> <br /> I think Mike Neer was a visitor to DSSI, but to my knowledge, unless he's entered as a guest, is unaware of EE.<br /> <br /> I guess that will be changing soon. <hr /><a name="a4669_28"></a><p><b>From: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.28">#28</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.25">#25</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> Brian - I see while I was composing my soapbox speech you were taking action. Cannot wait to see if Mike Neer post about this. Thanks for your pro-active approach. <hr /><a name="a4669_29"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.29">#29</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.27">#27</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> <p>My only cause is to make people aware of the situation. At a minimum they should have a right to choose who they give their hard earned dollars, based on the facts behind those selling the goods.</p> <p>SS's knowledge was never something that I regarded highly. As has been stated by others, much of his information was dated, and out of step with current technology and use. It was typicaly tightly based on the companies that paid him. I have always personally felt that better, more current cutting edge solutions were available for free, on a couple of the better forums including this one and DSSI. Most of these forums had more options for materials used, and equal or better techniques that didn't pigeonhole people through one narrow solution to a problem.</p> <p>Those personal feelings, plus the facts regarding his conviction are enough for me to feel that he is not a good representative of the sublimation community/industry. Touting him as such just isn't so.</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_30"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.30">#30</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.28">#28</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> <p>I think it's pretty clear that most are in agreement on the subject. I believe that I am only following through on something that many have strong feelings about, but don't have the wearwithall to act on those feelings.</p> <p>As I said in my last post, I mainly want people to be aware of who/what they are dealing with...Including the advertisors, trade magazines, and public forum's. He is not the bill of goods that they are selling, and touting him as an industry leader or good representative is just rubbish when you add his conviction to the mix.</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_31"></a><p><b>From: PenMan</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.31">#31</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.26">#26</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> You said it all and said it very well. Maybe you could write that book! <hr /><a name="a4669_32"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.32">#32</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.29">#29</a>] 24 Aug 2006</p> Brian,<br /> <br /> I'm looking forward to Mike Neer's response to your email, although I doubt he'll come to the forum with a public statement.<br /> <br /> Please keep us updated. <hr /><a name="a4669_33"></a><p><b>From: JHayes55</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.33">#33</a>]<br /> 24 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: PenMan</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.31">#31</a>] 25 Aug 2006</p> <p>The book might be shorter than my post. Darn, I wish I had not slept through all those boring English classes in high school and college. Might have helped if I had taken a second class in typing also.</p> <p>KIDS DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND STUDY YOUR LESSON BECAUSE SOMEDAY<br /> YOU MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE TO TYPE ON A FORUM AND YOU DON'T WANT TO LOOK STUPID <span class="e_tongue" title=":P"><span class="e__">:P</span> </span></p> <hr /><a name="a4669_34"></a><p><b>From: Boz (CHEDDARHEAD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.34">#34</a>]<br /> 25 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> May I suggest "Hang Em High" The Steven Spence Story <span class="e_devil" title="(devil)"><span class="e__">(devil)</span> </span> <hr /><a name="a4669_35"></a><p><b>From: basehorawards</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.35">#35</a>]<br /> 30 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.22">#22</a>] 31 Aug 2006</p> <p>David,</p> <p>I agree that SS is entitled to make a living and that by the laws of our land he has done his time.<br /> My question to those who do not want him "in our industry" is: what industry should he be in? He knows (though apparently not very well) this industry. So why should he go to another unless he can not make a living in this one? If you do not buy his book then perhaps he will not make enough money to stay here and will move on to something else.</p> <p>I have a lot of problems with the criminal justice system in general and with the sexual predator registry in particular. Did you know that if you are a 17 year old boy and are deceived by a 15 year old girl who tells you that she is 17 and you get caught having been intimate you have to register and are a sexual predator under the law equal to a child molester? </p> <p>That said; what do we as a society want of our convicted felons? If we ban them from making an honest living I see two other choices - a dishonest living or lifelong government support.</p> <p>BTW I will not be buying his book.</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_36"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.36">#36</a>]<br /> 31 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: basehorawards</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.35">#35</a>] 31 Aug 2006</p> <p>James,</p> <p>I agree. Some aspects of our legal system don't make sense. The example you pointed out is downright scary.</p> <p>I also agree that the market will dictate whether Stephen can make a living in this industry or not.</p> <p>Although we haven't heard what Mike Neer's opinion of the situation is, I suspect, if we had, it would be along the lines of, "He's done his time."</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 31 Aug 2006 by DGL</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_37"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.37">#37</a>]<br /> 31 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: basehorawards</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.35">#35</a>] 31 Aug 2006</p> <p>Hi James,</p> <p><br /> You asked....... "what industry should he be in?"</p> <p>The way I see it.....That's not my concern. I just don't feel like supporting someone like him in "our" industry. </p> <p>Regarding the laws surrounding 17 year olds having sex with other minors.....that's a totaly different situation than this particular one. I may agree with you, but this situation is totaly different than that.....</p> <p>We are talking about a grown man that was an ex minister, with child pornography on his computer. In addition to that there were accusations that fit the mold of a person that has this kind of material on his computer. Essentially the claims of video camera's in his business's bathrooms were what propegated the investigation....He wasn't convicted for anything regarding that, but that doesn't mean that they weren't necessarily there. At this point, no one will ever know about that portion of the situation.</p> <p>I don't care what the man does with himself regarding a job, but I personaly don't want to see him propped up as an industry leader, when </p> <p>A. He never was really much of an industry leader on a technical basis anyway (He was generaly behind the curve on most everything that he taught, dissed competing products publicly in comparision to what he was "selling", instead of going at it with an open mind as a real "teacher" should).</p> <p>B. He has this cloud hanging over his head, and part of the punishment is the public knowledge of his crime. His time will never be served.....as these sentances are typicaly a life of embarrassment and a shunning by society. As it should be.</p> <p><br /> Call it a harsh way of dealing with him.....but that's a stigma that will follow the kind of crime he has been convicted of.</p> <p>At this point, I would rather have him on welfare, and have an illegal alien teaching sublimation. <span class="e_wink" title=";)"><span class="e__">;)</span> </span></p> <hr /><p>Message 4669.38 was deleted</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_39"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.39">#39</a>]<br /> 31 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.36">#36</a>] 31 Aug 2006</p> <p>Sexual offenders that have to be on "the list's" time is never done.</p> <p>It's a life sentance......It never goes away. Time in jail is just the beginning of the embarrassment and shame that should go with this type of crime.</p> <p>Dissmissing the crime after 51 days in jail as "time served" is just not accurate. His time is just beginning.......It's gonna be there for the rest of his life.</p> <p>Thanks,</p> <p>Brian Genrich</p> <p><br /> I deleted my last post, as I was unable to edit due to the editing glitches that I have had. I needed to use more accurate terms than I was using.</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_40"></a><p><b>From: basehorawards</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.40">#40</a>]<br /> 31 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.37">#37</a>] 31 Aug 2006</p> <p>Brian,</p> <p>In my opinion child molesters should, at best, get life in prison without the possibility of parol on first offense. Death penalty is not too harsh for destroying a child.</p> <p>My knowledge of Spence is limited to reading a couple of articles in trade publications and what I have read here. I was not overly impressed with the articles and have to wonder what the circumstances were that lead the judge to only give 51 days.</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_41"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.41">#41</a>]<br /> 31 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.39">#39</a>] 31 Aug 2006</p> <p>Brian,</p> <p>A life sentence (in the eyes of the public) is only as long as a person's memory or knowledge of an event.</p> <p>Stephen may, or may not, be an ultimate authority, but he is willing, ready and able to research and write magazine articles.</p> <p>I don't see him disappearing from the industry anytime soon.</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 31 Aug 2006 by DGL</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_42"></a><p><b>From: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.42">#42</a>]<br /> 31 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.41">#41</a>] 31 Aug 2006</p> <p>So in essence....you're saying that he has served his time, and what he has done shouldn't matter at this point. It will be forgotton and life will go on either way.</p> <p>Dissapointangly you may be right, but I deeply disagree with that being the way it should work. </p> <p>His personal history reflects on his character as a man. That history is of his own making and he has to own up to it. </p> <p>Why should we be expected to dismiss this behavior, just because he served 51 days? Everyone knows that the justice system is rarely just. </p> <p>This situation goes hand in hand with being responsible for one's actions....Your saying that what's done is done.....it should be all gone. I'm saying that it reflects on the character of "the man himself" and that is difficult to change. Is this a man that you want to tout as a representative of "our" community? Why? Isn't his character part of what makes him who he is to all of us? Why isn't that weighed in on? Why should we forget/ignore the crime that was committed against these children because of the 51 days he served in jail.</p> <p><br /> I have yet to hear from Mike Neer. I have to say that I am deeply dissapointed, but not surprised. I would have hoped that we could have received some sort of reply from him. After waiting one full week, I doubt there will be any. I hope I'm wrong.</p> <hr /><a name="a4669_43"></a><p><b>From: Stunt Engraver (DGL)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.43">#43</a>]<br /> 31 Aug 2006<br /><b>To: RALLYGUY (RALLYGUY1)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.42">#42</a>] 31 Aug 2006</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b></div><div class="quote">Is this a man that you want to tout as a representative of "our" community?</div><br /> <br /> Regardless of who touts Stephen as a representative of our community, that's what he is and it would take an <i>extremely</i> concerted effort to change that.<br /> <br /> I'll continue to mention industry news items, which pertain to Stephen Spence, but I'm not compelled to mention his past history with every mention.<br /> <br /> In fact, Spence has a product review of an Accu Cutter shear in the latest EJ. I haven't taken time to read it yet, but I suspect it will come as useful information to many. <hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="EE" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="4669.44" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" class="button" value="Keep reading…" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.1">1-3</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.4">4-23</a>  24-43  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.44">44-63</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=4669.64">64-79</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2025 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>