Vector cut problems - ridges in all materials - Engraving Etc. Forum

<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="https://www.engravingetc.org:443/archive/index.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.3">Vector cut problems - ridges in all materials</a></h1><a name="a932_3"></a><p><b>From: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.3">#3</a>]<br /> 9 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.2">#2</a>] 9 Mar 2005</p> <p>Thanks for the response. </p> <p>This is happening with Rowmark Lasermark, Lasermax, Laser thins, etc (and everything else). These are all far less then 1/8" thick so thickness is not an issue as the 45-watt laser easily cuts it.</p> <p>I've tried changing the frequency from low to high and tried auto-focus instead of manual focus.</p> <p>These ridges show up all the way through. The ridges do not change if I turn off air assist.</p> <p>These ridges show up with just a simple rectangle, line or oval created in Corel 12.</p> <p>Michel</p><hr /><a name="a932_4"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.4">#4</a>]<br /> 9 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.3">#3</a>] 9 Mar 2005</p> <p>I wonder if you have a tube problem, or maybe a tickle problem.</p> <p>It sounds like you are not getting the firing the way you should.</p> <p>If you can post the wattage+%, the speed+%, and the type of acrylic that you use for 1/4", I can check that against my settings and see if there is a big difference. If you seem to need a lot more power than I do for the same product, it may indicate a firing problem.</p> <p>These settings should be just enough to go through the 1/4" plus about 15% for a guaranteed cut through.</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a932_5"></a><p><b>From: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.5">#5</a>]<br /> 9 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.4">#4</a>] 9 Mar 2005</p> <p>Thank you.</p> <p>It's an Epilog Mini 45-watt with their lastest print driver on Epilog's site.</p> <p>Latest plastic has been the Rowmark Lasermax about 1/16" thick (.0625). I've tried it at 40 speed, 100 power and 5000 frequency. Slowing it to 20/100/5000 produces too much burnt area but less prominent ridges.</p> <p>It was REALLY evident with an oval cut (like the shape of a Peterbilt logo), but it also evident with a square/rectangle with or without rounded corners.</p> <p>Not sure if this is related, but my raster images also produce fine lines if I engrave a black square on acrylic, plastic, etc.</p> <p>Michel</p> <p>Forgot to add.. I don't have any 1/4" acrylic on hand...</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 9 Mar 2005 by UPACREEK</p> <hr /><a name="a932_6"></a><p><b>From: Engravin' Dave (DATAKES)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.6">#6</a>]<br /> 9 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.1">#1</a>] 9 Mar 2005</p> <p>Upacreek,</p> <p>Your frequency settings appear to be way to high for laserable plastic. I do not have an Epilog manual for a Mini, but I would anticipate that the recommended frequency setting should be closer to 500, than 5000. I base this comment on what my experience has been and that a 45 watt Legend EX has recommended settings of 40 speed, 30 power, 500 frequency for laserable plastics.</p> <hr /><a name="a932_7"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.7">#7</a>]<br /> 9 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.1">#1</a>] 9 Mar 2005</p> <p>Ridges can be caused by multiple factors<br /> 1) Loose motion system (fine lines sound like the y axis might need adjustment?)<br /> 2) Too low a PPI<br /> 3) The design package is not doing curves properly<br /> 4) Curve interpolation in the driver is set too low (if it has this)<br /> 5) Not getting the melt the laser produces being ejected at the back sde of the cut (use a cutting grid)<br /> 5) Incorrect air assist pressure - resulting in a rapid cooling of the material.<br /> 6) Problems with an encoder in one or both axes (ie its not sensing position correctly.<br /> 7) A problem with the laser source<br /> 8) incorrect focus</p> <p>This is not a "live with it" type problem , it's a real problem that affects functionality of the machine and you need to get it sorted out - I don't have the machine you do , but would never accept it on mine.<br /> Try vector engraving a set of closely spaced concentric circles , IE not cut but just engrave , and try this at various speeds , espcially low speed (just drop the power)<br /> if the quality of the circles is very good , it rules out anything to do with the design package and most likely rules out motion system problems and you can investigate further.<br /> In terms of air assist , you want to back off till flaming occurs and then whack it up a bit to stop flaming but to get a smooth melt.<br /> If you arent using a cutting grid , do so<br /> As to your driver an PPI , I cant help as Im not at all familiar with your machine<br /> The laser source might also be struggling when being asked to deliver higher powers for some reason or another , your tech dept should help there.<br /> As to focus , if you have a 2" lens , then the distance to your workpiece from the bottom of the lens should be as near to 2"s as possible<br /> Hope some of this helps</p><hr /><a name="a932_8"></a><p><b>From: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.8">#8</a>]<br /> 9 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.7">#7</a>] 9 Mar 2005</p> <p>Thank you for the input Rodney. It is greatly valued.</p> <p>For this test, I used Rowmark Lasermax plastic. The Epilog Mini uses speed/power/frequency for vector cutting</p> <p>I ran several circle vector cuts with both 600 & 1200 dpi and the results were nearly identical.</p> <p>Running at slower (at 1/1/500 & 1/1/5000) produced a cleaner cut, yet there are still faint ridges visable when the laser changed directions in the lower right & upper left of the curves. The faster it was run, the more the ridges appeared (with both 500 & 5000 frequency)</p> <p>Air Assist appears to be working okay and I do use a vector grid. (No difference if I elevate the plastic off the grid or not.)</p> <p>I'm using the 2" lens and according to the instructions, the focus distance is correct too.</p> <p>Just for grins and giggles I raster engraved several black squares at 600 & 1200 dpi with both the "clip art" and "photograph" dithering options at different speeds. The fine horizontal lines remained the same on all the black squares.</p> <p>Michel</p><hr /><a name="a932_9"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.9">#9</a>]<br /> 9 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.8">#8</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> <p>Try vector (NOT raster) engraving the circles , Ie use a high speed and little power , and then drop the speed and the power accordingly , the quality of the vector engraved circles will tell you a lot , perfect circles at all speeds will eliminate the motion system (well it should) and the driver or circle interpolation.<br /> Regards</p><hr /><a name="a932_10"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.10">#10</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.8">#8</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> <p>On the circles with ridges, (like Ruffles), are the ridges appearing to be a movement of the beam or is it a wider opening and then a narrower opening? Wide and narrow relates to a power problem, zig-zag, like a record is a motion problem.</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a932_11"></a><p><b>From: UCONN Dave &amp; Lynn too (DANDL48)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.11">#11</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.5">#5</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> <p>I would call Epilog back and insist in talking to Peck who is the head of Tech Support. I'm really surprised on their attitude, we've never had a problem.</p> <p>Dave</p> <hr /><a name="a932_12"></a><p><b>From: old man (OLDMAN)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.12">#12</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.10">#10</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> <p>I also have a 45 watt Epilog mini. Do alot of plastics such as 1/8" acrylics , Rowmark laserMax ect ect . You will never get a cut that is perfectly smooth . There will always be some ridges left behind but from what you say it sounds like a tech problem with your machine . Try and call the tech people at Epilog . Their # is in your users manual . Talk to Peck , the head tech guy. <br /> I had a few problems with my mini and he was of great help . If you want you can send me a small sample of your plastics " ridges" on a piece of Rowmark and I can compair it to the output from my machine . Not to tell you that if there is a big problem that I can solve it but might be nice to see where you stand<br /> Hope that is of some help</p> <p>A J Palik<br /> Photon Graphics </p><hr /><a name="a932_13"></a><p><b>From: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.13">#13</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>Rodney, The circles I ran earlier were vector cuts. The higher the speed the worse the ridges appear. The slowest speed of 1/1 still produced a few ridges when the laser changed direction on the x-axis.</p> <p>Harvey, I'm a little fuzzy at the moment. I'm not 100% certain if it's zig-zags or thickness. I think it may be a combination of both on the circles. On the raster squares I did it appears to be thickness as the lines taper at the ends - it's like looking at woven fabric.</p> <p>Dave, Peck is the only tech support person I have dealt with. My Sales Rep, Phil Tucker has yet to respond. My corncens about his slow response time prior to the purchase have proven to be valid.</p><hr /><a name="a932_14"></a><p><b>From: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.14">#14</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.13">#13</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> <p>Thanks for the response AJ. </p> <p>What settings are you using to raster engrave and vector cut your lasermax? Ours should be the same settings.</p> <p>Michel</p><hr /><a name="a932_15"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.15">#15</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.13">#13</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> <p>Can you take a close up digital shot and crop it to a small area. Post the remaining area at at least 4" width and we should be able to see exactly what is up.</p> <p>If you have Corel Paint you can Resample to 150 DPI and set the width to 4". Then when you save it as a JPG you increase the Compression to where it just starts to show degradation, then back off a bit. Set the Rounding to 0 for best clarity.</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a932_16"></a><p><b>From: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.16">#16</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>Hi. Here's some pictures. The lighting/focus isn't the best, but you get the general idea.</p> <p>The acrylic was raster engraved with a solid black background. Not sure if you can tell, but the lines are broken up and taper at the ends. I get the same effect with Rowmark laser plastic.</p> <p>The ridges are on a piece of Rowmark Lasermax plastic. This was a rectangle about 6" long. The whole thing is like this.</p> <p>Epilog has seen the posts and have contacted me and are requesting more samples on all forms of laser material.</p> <p>Michel</p><hr /><a name="a932_17"></a><p><b>From: sprinter</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.17">#17</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.16">#16</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> That really is bad! My epilog 24 TT is almost glass smooth and polished.<hr /><a name="a932_18"></a><p><b>From: Rodney Gold (RODNEY_GOLD)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.18">#18</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.16">#16</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> That is totally unacceptable engraving/cutting.<br /> What are the manufacturers asking for samples for? Tell them to fix your machine chop-chop and to stop dickering around!!!<hr /><a name="a932_19"></a><p><b>From: Harvey only (HARVEY-ONLY)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.19">#19</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.16">#16</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> <p>That appears to be uneven firing of the tube.</p> <p>On laserable acrylic I get a white faintly grainy, (dot grainy), result from the fine grain in the acrylic. Those are really lines, laser problem, not material aberrations.</p> <p>The edge also looks like firing at different powers in an uneven manor. My gut feeling is that the tube is not firing when it should.</p> <p> </p> <hr /><a name="a932_20"></a><p><b>From: old man (OLDMAN)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.20">#20</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.14">#14</a>] 10 Mar 2005</p> <p>Here is a few settings that work on my 45 watt Mini<br /> LaserMax Raster speed=100 Raster power=35<br /> Vector speed=28 Vector power=75<br /> Freq.=500</p> <p>1/8" cell cast acrylic Raster speed=100 Raster power=45<br /> Vector speed=10 Vector power=100<br /> Freq=5000</p> <p>Hope that puts you in the ball park. Took a look at the pics that you posted and you DO have a problem. My edges have slight ridges in them---YOURS HAS HILLS AND GULLIES. </p> <p>As I posted eariler---Call tech support at Epilog</p> <p>A J Palik<br /> Photon Graphics</p> <p> </p><hr /><a name="a932_21"></a><p><b>From: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.21">#21</a>]<br /> 10 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> <p>Thanks everyone for the input. Since I haven't seen other's laser engraving it's hard for me to compare what is correct or not.</p> <p>When I talked to Tech Support today, I was informed that they look at some of the forums too, but that I can't expect to see the same results as others who have different machines then I do and that I should not rely on any comments other then what Tech Support tells me. Even though you guys are doing it for a living, they know best.....</p> <p>I sent full size pictures (no cropping or editing smaller) and Peck said he couldn't see the horizontal lines in the acrylic example I posted. Also that I can't expect acrylic to laser as well as other plastics.</p> <p>I had Peck confirm that I was focusing correct, and that my settings were acceptable (similar to their manual recommendations) so I do not see how it can be user error. (Which I am fully willing to accept - as long as I'm told how to correct my errors!) I even offered to put the machine on the floor to rule out any type of microscopic table wobble!</p> <p>I have already done an alignment test to all 4 corners (several times) and I have already leveled the table in Nov. (the right side was 2 clicks lower then the left). I clean the machine regularly.</p> <p>I feel the request for more samples is another stall tactic. I was a computer monster in my former life doing the full gamut from teaching, troubleshooting, documentation, testing, tech support & building the junk (er, software & equipment) for about 20 years and I know what stalling is. (I'm not that old! I started full-time IT work while in Hi Sch.) Requiring more samples on all laser material is a waste of time & product, but they are unwilling to pursue anything until I send more samples.</p> <p>I'm tired and grumpy so I better stop before effin this and effin that starts showing up.</p> <p>Oh and sorry, "what creek am I up" ... those are the personalized plates on my CJ5 (Jeep). For those who don't get it. Jeep + Mud = you eventually .... get stuck .... which means "You are up a creek without a paddle"...</p> <p>AJ - I'll try your settings and see if there is any difference. Thank you.</p> <p>Michel</p><hr /><a name="a932_22"></a><p><b>From: old man (OLDMAN)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.22">#22</a>]<br /> 11 Mar 2005<br /><b>To: Upacreek</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.21">#21</a>] 11 Mar 2005</p> <p>send me your address and I will send you a sample off of my machine---that way you can compair the outputs----could epilog be stalling as they have never seen this problem before???</p> <p>aajj at comcast dot net</p><p class="edit_text">EDITED: 11 Mar 2005 by OLDMAN</p> <hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="EE" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="932.23" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" class="button" value="Keep reading…" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.1">1-2</a>  3-22  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=EE&msg=932.23">23-31</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=EE">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=EE">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2024 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>